AIBU to think cosleeping leads to bad sleepers?

[Mrsharper88]

The mums I have chatted to who promote cosleeping seem to complain about their children being bad sleepers. This seems to be until their children are at least toddlers if not even older. This leads me to believe that cosleeping makes bad sleep patterns in babies and toddlers, and does not promote sleeping through. Am I wrong?

For context I am currently cosleeping with my 12week old out of necessity as I can't get him to settle any other way. My older child did not need to cosleep but did need rocking to sleep, this was something he grew out of naturally. My understanding is that children don't grow out of the need to cosleep naturally and I am creating bad habits and should persevere with helping baby to sleep on his own

So Aibu to think that cosleeping leads to a bad sleeper?

DS2 coslept until he was 3 and a half. He naturally started sleeping through at about 3 and was consistent enough at 3 and a half for us to put him in his own room. Bought a cool bed and let him choose duvet set. In general it was drama free and he sleeps ok now. DS3 is 3 and still wakes so I am in no hurry to move him.

DS has been co-sleeping with us since birth. He's 2 now and is choosing to sleep in his own bed and room every so often. (He's got a double bed in his room because he keeps rolling about at night and kept waking himself in his cot...) During those nights, he'll sleep through. When he's with us, he might still wake once or twice but it doesn't bother either of us.
We've had the usual multiple wakings and him only sleeping for 20 minutes when he was tiny but he's generally slept through from about 8 months.

Do what you need to. Both my eldest co-slept for quite a long period of time as toddlers/ preschoolers (not full nights, we would just wake up with them in the bed in the morning!) but stopped as soon as they went to school. Youngest is only 4 months old and sleeps through the night in one of these bedside cots. I’d rather not take him into bed with me while he’s so little, but if it was the only way we were getting sleep I would.

We found places other than the bed to shag not so vanilla over here.

Once ds was asleep in the bed, he'd stay asleep whether there was one of us or both in there.

He is now 7yo and comes in for a snuggle in the morning and nods off again, it is lovely.

Coslept with ds2&3 they are 6 and 2 and the youngest sleeps from 7pm until around 9am, elder one from around 9pm-9am so doesn’t seem to have been an issue here.

Lisa it's more complicated than that. Obviously advice needs to be simple and clear which is why they say only BF mothers should co-sleep. In reality we don't really know why there's a connection between BF and safer co-sleeping, but we can make a few educated guesses. I believe that it's extremely likely it's because a mother who is co-sleeping in order to facilitate breastfeeding is almost guaranteed to do certain things which contribute to the safety of co-sleeping, and hence if a non-breastfeeding adult were to emulate these things, they could recreate a lot of the safety afforded by them. In fact many BF mothers will co-sleep yet not do it in the typical "breastsleeping" way so I'm not entirely sure that the advice that it's safe if and only if you breastfeed is helpful, I think instead it should be more of a dialogue about the risk factors.

I don't believe that co-sleeping is inherently dangerous; it's merely that cots are inherently safe, being designed specifically for infants with their sleep safety in mind. An adult bed has NOT been designed with this in mind and therefore it falls to the adult(s) to be aware of the potential dangers introduced by it and protect the baby from them.

So to what they call "breastsleeping" AKA the highly safe method of co-sleeping favoured by (sometimes done instinctively by) breastfeeding mothers.

• Mother lies on her side, facing the baby. Typically she will have one arm and leg brought forward, similar to the recovery position in terms of preventing her from rolling, or the baby from moving up or down.
• Baby lies on his or her side, facing mum, or back.
• Baby's head is lined up with the mother's breast, which removes him/her from access to pillows. Mother's arm is a barrier between baby and pillows.
• Mother's breast is bare or easily accessible - no large and fluffy layers of clothing. She likely has the bedroom at a comfortable temperature, not too hot for body contact, not too cold for a bare chest.
• Mother's coverings are mainly behind her and/or up to her waist. Her extended knee and free hand are perfectly placed to adjust coverings as necessary, keeping baby's head and mouth free.
• Baby is wearing a small amount of light, loose clothing they can easily move in and not become tangled or overheated.
• Baby is lying freely on the bed, not in any kind of smaller bed or container or sleeping space, so that there is no barrier between baby and mum.
• Mother has bodily contact, possibly skin to skin, with baby which has a dual purpose - she is aware of his/her breathing and temperature, but also, skin-to-skin contact with a young baby does have a temperature regulating effect which can actually keep a newborn's core temperature more stable than an incubator (see Kangaroo care)
• Mother's face is near to baby which means that her exhalations are very close to the baby. This has two potential purposes which we have theories about relating to SIDS - she's bathing the baby in CO2 as she breathes out, which could stimulate breathing, and she's also easily close enough that the baby can hear (and feel) her breathing, which we believe perhaps prompts him/her to breathe too.
• Baby feels secure and settled being so close to mother's scent; baby and mother gain oxytocin due to skin-to-skin contact and breastfeeding; this results in good sleep which means that the technique generally works, and the mother is not overtired. Babies tend not to roll away from the mother as they find it appealing to cuddle in and stay close, so they are less likely to roll out of bed (nb, don't count on this - it's less likely, not impossible - particularly as they get older and more independent and mobile and/or if you ever encourage them to use a bedside crib).
• We think due to hormones created by breastfeeding both mother and baby are in a somewhat lighter sleep, enabling the mother to be aware of the baby's small movements and enabling the baby to wake up if they experience any difficulty. Overly deep sleep is associated with higher SIDS risk.

Of course some of these aren't recreatable - you can't put hormones in which don't exist - but some of these benefits wouldn't exist if the baby was sleeping in a cot, and yet we consider that a safe alternative. But as you can see, most of them relate to when you're using co-sleeping as a method to enable side lying feeding, and don't magically correlate with breastfeeding. Examples of some practices people use while co-sleeping which would be more risky could be:

• Baby sleeping in a product designed to separate them from the parents - ironically often marketed as improving sleep safety. No, you want that close contact, any separation of this reduces safety. If you feel you need to have the baby in a separate container, then make sure it's properly separate - something like a moses basket by the bed or a bedside cot, that you can't roll over and that won't move if it's on top of the covers.
• Baby in a position which is not directly next to the supervising adult's chest, for example, on top of the covers (covers could move, which endangers baby, baby could overheat) or even at the top of the bed between pillows - this is a really risky position.
• Sitting up to feed while not fully awakening, leading to high chance of falling asleep feeding while in an unsafe position. (If you can, feed in the side lying position so that falling asleep isn't unsafe, and if you can't, you need to make sure somehow you stay awake during feeds - perhaps by taking shifts, moving to another location, or I use my phone and do things which are engaging).
• Baby swaddled, or dressed in heavy clothing e.g. sleeping bags which are designed for sleeping alone.
• Adult on their back - you're less aware which means you might move pillows, covers in your sleep.

Like anything else it's always swiss cheese theory - you have to have several things go wrong before anything bad will happen, it's just that the typical/instinctive behaviour of a mother who co-sleeps in order to allow her to sleep/doze during feeds tends to add more layers so that if something does go wrong there are more failsafes against it.

Co slept with all who are now 17/11/9.

All people in general are different so some will be good sleepers and some not so much but from my experience all mine now sleep excellently. They're all nighthawks so won't sleep until later, as has always been the way for them, but aren't early risers.

Yes they all had their moments of being challenging shites but over time just migrated into their own spaces and felt secure enough to do so without any fuss or upset.

Worked for me and the children, might not for others. Always done safely.

I co slept with my ds until he was 3yrs old, then occasionally he'd still get in our bed until he was 6. He's the most loving child now and we talk about all sorts. He's 14 now and has no sleep problems at all (often sleeps 12hrs!) We also co sleep with our dd who is now 6. She does have her own bedroom, but prefers to be in with us. She is also really loving, but gets really hot when asleep so I often top and tail so I get the cold bit of the bed.
My eldest never co-slept as he was very premature and I was scared of squashing him. He was a poor sleeper and would wake every 2 hrs for milk or comfort. He's 16 now and still a poor sleeper

I had both my babies in bed from birth.

DC1 was a good sleeper from the start. She moved to a cot in her own room at 6 months. She's almost 3 now and still a fab sleeper.

DC2 was a terrible sleeper from the start. He's 14 months now and rarely sleeps more than 3 hours straight. He is still in our bed.

As for coping with cosleeping. DH sleeps with us, and after the newborn stage sleeps happily alone with baby if necessary (though it didn't happen that much as I breastfed). I sleep in positions that are comfortable (baby quite often in my armpit). I move if I want to move. At 3 months old I started leaving DC1 upstairs asleep in bed in the evening and we joined her a few hours later. I still had glasses of wine just didn't go to bed tipsy. I realise some of this against the advice but I think just use common sense.

Like many others, I suspect that it's common for parents to co-sleep out of necessity because they have a "bad sleeper", and that putting the child in a bed away from parents wouldn't have turned such a child into a "good sleeper".

We co-slept out of choice with both of ours. The first slept really well in bed with us until 9 months. (By "sleeping well" I don't mean that she didn't wake. She woke very often to feed, but returned to sleep quickly, and I was well-rested.) Then she suddenly became a terrible sleeper. We put her in a cot six weeks later out of desperation. It didn't help, but we never brought her back to our bed. She didn't fall asleep easily until she was over five.

The second shared our bed until she was six years old. Through her toddler years she usually half-woke two or three times a night and then returned to sleep quickly, which didn't bother us. At six, she happily went into another room and slept well.

I’m a paediatrician. In my experience parents who choose to co-sleep generally have a need to respond to their baby’s every demand. They don’t want to put their baby down and prefer to carry them. They can’t stand to hear their baby cry, be upset or have the baby be alone at any time. Sometimes this is best for the child. Sometimes it isn’t and the need is not the child’s but the parents need for closeness. This can set up a vicious cycle of what outsiders may view as a demanding, needy, clingy child. I think the key thing is that whatever way you choose to sleep your child or parent, as long as it is working for your whole family and not negatively impacting on others then it’s fine. If it isn’t working, then something needs to change.

Unintentionally co-slept with firstborn, because she couldn't settle on her own, also she was a nightmare unless she has her dummy, generally speaking. Intentionally co-slept with secondborn, I breastfed this one, and she wouldn't settle til she was around five years. Both kids very different and the sleep things were different. As a baby, firstborn was damned easy and she would sleep anywhere. She used to get invited to (civilised) parties with us because she was so loved and known not to be trouble. But as she got out of the toddler stage and particularly when the dummy was removed, she was just up and about all the time. Where as my bad sleeping youngest generally falls asleep quickly now and would sleep through an air raid siren, fire alarm, end of the world. Eldest still has trouble getting herself off to sleep now, but meh.

Basically, na, co-sleeping doesn't make bad sleepers but bad sleepers are often co-slept with because they're bad sleepers.

Yea I think there is a link . My boys have both co slept as they wouldn't sleep and then ended up with years of not being able to sleep without us nearby but my daughter didn't co sleep and has always self settled really well however I think my daughter is more insecure in some ways and I do wonder if this is because she didn't have that closeness as a younger child (or just that girls are more difficult as they hit pre teen)

My bad sleeper has always hated co-sleeping, she was born a bad sleeper, nothing we've done!

I think there is a conflation between cosleeping and the wider practices of attachment parenting. AP is usually a choice made by the parents before the baby is born and so has nothing to do with if the baby is a good sleeper or not.

Co slept from birth.
Gradual stopping of night BF feeds when she was unwell and an introduction of a bottle before bed had meant at around 7months shes slept in her next to bed cot instead. Shes still less than an arms length away and im up a few timea a night to pat/reassure her back to sleep.

BTW i actually miss co sleeping somewhat now! However it was a massive lifesaver. I dont think id ever had slept a wink had i not co slept.

You’ve either got a good sleeper or bad sleeper

I used to say this but looking back now I think we unwittingly created a 'bad sleeper' with our first DC.

We got into the habit early on of rocking her to sleep in a chair then lowering her into her cot only once she was fast asleep. We didn't see any harm doing this at the time as we enjoyed the lovely cuddles and once she was asleep she slept through the night. But then at about 14 months she suddenly started waking in the night, several times a night, every night. Having never learned to settle herself to sleep, she wouldn't drop off again without being fed/rocked/cuddled to sleep every time and so we ended up bringing her into our bed as we were too tired to keep getting up and down all night. We had never intended to 'co-sleep' but she very quickly got used to being in our bed and it was then a nightmare to get her to go into her own room.

We went from rocking to sleep to one of us having to lie next to her until she fell asleep once she transitioned to a single bed. This could take up to three hours. She continued to wake in the night and we played musical beds, sometimes she'd get in with us, sometimes one of us would get in with her etc. While DD slept well once in our bed neither of us did as she was such a fidgety sleeper. With both of us working full time and never having a decent nights sleep we were exhausted and not having an evening together was hard. If I had the time again I would do things differently.

Dd1 hated co sleeping....hated sleep in general....even now at 12 sleeps badly.

Dd2 co slept (because due to circumstances we all slept in the same room when she was born)....we carried on co sleeping when we moved because it just seemed the natural thing to do....she never had any problems sleeping even when we moved her to a cot....now at 11 she is a 'sleep perched on a ledge sort of girl.

Ds has a sleep disorder and reflux....if we hadn't co slept we would never have slept (and neither would the street)....at 8 he still ends up in our bed most nights.

It's luck.

For some co-sleeping is cultural as well. DH slept with his parents till he started primary school. DS age 2 sleeps with us now and we all enjoy it.
(He does have a bed in his room and does sometimes spend half the night in it.)

Good and bad sleepers are also cultural IMO. DSs natural falling asleep time of 9am is seen as 'you're so lucky' by my Italian relatives and 'shame you don't get an evening' by my English friends.