To be so angry with the British high street?

[peoniesarejustperfect]

Went sales shopping yesterday with my elderly Mother yesterday. We went to an 'affluent' city in the south east. We always go shopping after Christmas and it's a bit of a tradition and we normally really enjoy it. Yesterday was just so depressing - it made me fizz with anger. I hardly know where to start!!

The shops were just horrible - full of badly merchandised sales stuff which looked totally uninviting.

In several of the shops we went into there were no staff on the shop floor - we wanted to ask where different departments were (to save Mum walking too much), but no one to ask and poor signage.

In House of Fraser (one of the stores which is remaining open) we waited for 25 mins in the luggage department for a member of staff - there was no one there to help - no tape measure, no useful signs about cabin luggage allowances and no one to take any cash. We hung around for ages with two other families - no chairs to sit on, we just stood around. After a while we all gave up. The same in lingerie - no staff on duty. We had lunch there, which was really nice, but the restaurant loos were closed for cleaning when we went in at 12:15. What restaurant shuts its loos at lunchtime??? They suggested we left the restaurant and 'popped down' two floors to use another loo.

The British high street keep moaning but really, why on earth would anyone want to shop there? Why do they deserve our hard earned cash? It's incredibly expensive to park and the retailers don't seem very keen on keeping customers happy - let alone delighting them! There's not enough staff and with some notable exceptions, many of them are poorly trained - it all seems a bit of an effort for them.

Last Christmas we went to the US. I know it's different in America, but every morning in Macy's, when the doors open, a group of staff clap the shoppers in. We couldn't get over this and asked a sales assistant about it - she told us it's an honour to be picked - to welcome customers, look them in the eye and say thanks for coming. US retail is facing similar challenges, but what a different response. Helpful staff directing you to places, gorgeous merchandising, seats everywhere and staff trained to sell.

Anyone else fed up with the high street?

everything else.

I noticed just how bad the British high Street is after shopping in Singapore. It was glorious!!! Clean, friendly faces, clothes nicely organised, no loud blaring music--so you can actually think! No stuck up sales assistants that think the own the store judging you, trying to work out if you can actually afford to shop there. This happens a lot when I'm the UK. Plus the toxic cycle of high rents, greedy landlords and shocking business rates no wonder the face of the high street is changing.

Lonicera Sheffield city centre is ultra crap though. If l go to York or Leeds, I can find Mango, Cos, Other Stories and a whole host of mid level fashion shops.

Sheffield has none of these. The only shop worth going to is John Lewis. The rest of it is just boring low end chain stores.

I never go into the city centre, it sells nothing that appeals to me

And as for the Big Issue sellers, crime gangs wait to collect the magazine before the homeless can and send out women to beg with them.

There has been a Roma woman of about 30 selling the big issue for a few years now, in a very smart market town where a relative of mine lives. She is smiley and friendly and a well known fixture. Even I recognise her and I don't even live there. She sits on her little camping chair for a few hours most days, her other female relatives wander back and forth, chatting to her, there doesn't appear to be anything remotely homeless or needy looking about her. It totally stinks that selling the Big Issue can be considered 'self employment' and even if she barely sells any, if she sits there for enough hours a week it opens up a world of other 'in work' benefits for her. No wonder she's so flipping smiley and happy in her 'work.'

I wasn't really referring to the shopping bit, but the gentrified bits. I agree that Leeds is much better for shopping. I had never been into a Mango until earlier this year, and my goodness, I could have bought the entire stock. I wish there was a Uniqlo shop near me. I have read so many good things about them, but I really need to try before I buy when it comes to clothes. Online shopping will never replace real shopping when it comes to clothes and shoes for me.

We all want that wonderful high street shopping experience, but are we willing to pay for it?

Car parking costs
Enormous business rates
Huge rents
Staffing costs- shop floor, cleaning etc.

• Auto enrollment pensions and minimum wage increases. Some shops have countered that by employing fewer people / zero hour contracts.

Shop floor managers have seen the gap between what they earn and what the people they manage earn decrease. Who wants the extra responsibility and hassle for an extra 20p per hour?

The increased costs means simply the high street cannot compete with the low over heads and in some cases (very frustratingly) low taxes some online retailers pay.

I went to London yesterday and was mainly on oxford street. I found Marks & Spencer exactly as you described. No staff available, and very poor merchandising. It looked like a warehouse in parts - and that wasn’t even In the sale area.
However John Lewis was a different story. We were there when they opened the doors at 11.30 and all the staff stood at the doors looking very smart and saying “Good morning.” There were several times I looked around for an assistant and found someone straight away.

I felt like this before Christmas.

Shops just seem to be full of cheap nasty tat. M&S was full of dodgy cheap acrylic jumpers. Their toilets were disgusting and when I looked down the shop floor was very dirty.

I am buying less but spending more on quality items that last from decent retailers who treat their staff a bit better (i.e. John Lewis, Waitrose, independent retailers, etc.). Currently avoiding Sports Direct, Wallis, Dorothy Perkins and anything that is Phillip Green related or where I know staff are on bum zero hours contracts.

John Lewis is an absolute joy. How M&S used to be twenty years ago.

John Lewis is an absolute joy. How M&S used to be twenty years ago.

I’m not convinced we can compare and contrast the British high street, with the possible exception of Regent street with Singapore. That’s less apples and oranges and more diamonds and coal.

We have all talked about “bad” high streets. Should we consider “good” high streets and demonstrate our appreciation by heading to those places. I love Bath (I know, a City vs a Street) but the brand stores are smaller, well stocked and friendly and there’s some really smashing independents too.

Parking is a mare, but the station puts you bang in the centre so you can have a nice boozy lunch mid-shop too.

I thought that was a very pleasant day out.

I thought that was a very pleasant day out.

I think hinted on it, it was more of a destination, boozy lunch browse some shops etc.

Attitudes have changed now, the high street should be more of a destination, with shops offering experiences or something that cannot be offered online, a lot of people are prepared to order clothes online and send them back rather than walk around different department stores, the genie of online shopping is not going to be put back in the bottle.

The high street needs to adapt, and they will be vastly different to how they are now and I can see them reducing in size by a significant amount as well.

I live in the Midlands, not all that far from the enormous Merry Hill shopping complex. They have a huge amount of parking spaces there, all completely free and unrestricted.

That brings it's own problems ... we pretty much stopped going there 15 years ago, after waiting an hour in the car to get onto the road.

Mind you, it was on the slide then, when they ripped out a lot of non-shop amenities (anyone remember the fish pond and bridge ?) to maximise the retail space. They got their quick buck. But now the retail side is melting to nothing, you're left with empty soulless shells with no incentive to restore the amenities.

They've just opened a massive new Sainsburys with other stores in Selly Oak, and employed the same "one road in, one road out" design that can see you queuing for age.

I properly love John Lewisbut even that isn't quite the store it was 20 years ago.

M&S has gone so far downhill in terms of product quality it's barely recognisable as the same shop. I do still find their customer service generally very good though.

Yes Lurker the big shopping centres are already in the the gig aren’t they? Come and shop, return your online orders, have a bit of lunch/afternoon tea, see a movie etc.

Lots of High Streets could (and probably do I just don’t know them) easily do similar; Bath, Brighton, Edinburgh immediately spring to mind.

I also heard an interesting article on the Jeremy Vine show (don’t flame me, this has merit that because betting shops have a limit of 4 high value slot machines per premises, that’s why they open 2,3,4 per High Street. These things are a menace anyway but the number of betting shops in a given location isn’t going to enhance the “go to” appeal.

I thought a PP had a thought provoking point that maybe councils should turn high streets back to part-residential as they used to be.

The High Streets will continue to decline until we get people living and working in them again. We need to reduce the size of the shopping areas and re-purpose the other buildings into homes, offices, etc to get people back 24/7, not just 9-5. You know something has gone badly wrong when even doctors surgeries, opticians, vets, and dentists have moved out of the centres! The added bonus of people living and working in the centres is that public transport needs are reduced! As for the identikit High Street chains - no loss, they can disappear completely for me - they're the ones who were responsible for the closure of huge numbers of small independents before them. What goes around comes around!

and of course that's the downside (for them) of shopping from their website. You are less tempted to browse or be distracted when you can zone in on the one or two items you need and filter out everything.

Yes but that's a bit boring if you like browsing, like me.

Avon is a good example of how streamlining to online has lost them money from me. I used to order online and they would send out a catalogue with the order. I really like leafing through the pages compared to waiting for a page to load on a tiny screen, there was always perfume samples to see if you like a smell, rather than guessing on the screen. I used to regularly buy from Avon, now I just replace my foundation. I never buy anything new, the site doesn't really promote a new item, it's boring as fuck. Avon have lost money from me by forcing me to shop online. It's just not fun and requires a leap of faith as to whether the item will look or feel as promised.

10 years ago, there were 1.6 million people employed as Sales and retail assistants, nowadays there are 1 million (ONS), in the meantime the population has increased from 61 to 67 million.

Crudely put, there was 1 assistant for every 38 people 10 years ago, now there is one for every 67. It's hardly surprising that the level of service has dropped & as anyone whose worked in retail over the past decade will tell you, this is mainly down to a lack of time - the same amount of work (and in many cases more tasks) being done by almost 1/2 the number of people.
Go out and ask 100 random people what is the most important factor they consider when shopping, and most will say price. With margins squeezed, its hardly any wonder that retailers have cut the number of staff.

10 years ago we was at peak bubble that was built on easy credit and the high street was already dying, also online shopping was still somewhat in its infancy, add into the mix that a lot of the shops have since gone bust its not totally relevant how many people are working in the sector now.

There are many contributing factors, but it is the natural progression, a lot of shops/businesses where not prepared to move with the times and thought they had a captive market. Attitudes have changed now, even the calls for more independents is somewhat misguided as quite a few are buying the same wholesale stuff anyway.

PP has said, they need an overhaul of mixed occupancy and to make it more of a destination/experience. For everyone on here who prefers to go to the shops to browse I would put a small bet on that they browse online before hand which points to how everyones attitude has changed by the convenience of online retail

"There were no useful signs about cabin luggage allowances

Why on earth would you expect that?! 😂😂"

Because it's quite important?!?
I've seen that in shops. Some even have a replica of the basket type thing airlines use and you can see if your cabin bag meets the specs for different companies. It's not something you want to get wrong.

Would it be easier for your elderly mother to go to a small town with smaller shops? Shopping in large shops is hard work on the feet.

Gwenhwyfar
Airlines set their own dimensions anyway so some cabin bags aren't actually ok for a few airlines.

Personally, I think peak shopping (or whatever) was 2005. The year Alders went. Since then it's been a steady decline.

I base that on the fact that once the Alders went in the Redditch Kingfisher, where it spanned 3 floors, the unit was never fully utilized again .... Primark took over the ground floor and that was it. Since then there's never been a time of full occupancy, and I suspect more shops have opened and closed than remain today.

The winding up of various shopmobility schemes isn't great either. And there's something obscene about hearing the Bullring shopmobility had to close (central Birmingham) while there's an Apple store in town that could probably pay for it out of their tinsel budget.

Staff are doing the same job on zero hour contracts with half the staff and a fraction of the revenue

^^ This

"Gwenhwyfar
Airlines set their own dimensions anyway so some cabin bags aren't actually ok for a few airlines."

Maisy, that's the point. Some shops show you the dimensions for each airline.