Did we expect too much from 5 year old?

[Racheyg]

Not sure if we expect too much from 5 year old ds?

He was playing upstairs with his cousin (6) and his younger brother (3) I'm in the kitchen so couldn't hear anything. All of a sudden dh called out for me. I run upstairs and ds2 is in tears blood streaming down his face, with a huge gash to his head. Both ds1 and cousin say they don't know how it happened. Me and dh take ds2 to hospital and leave ds1 with in-laws.

Once ds2 is calmer we asked what happened he tells us that he was being spun on a chair and he fell off and hit his head on brass handles. After 4hrs in A&E ds2 is stitched up and set home.

In the mean time dh tells me he over heard ds1 say to cousin "oh now we can play on our own" I found this quite upsetting that he could be so mean. Dh was angry.

Are we expecting too much from a 5 year old to understand that when someone is hurt/bleeding you comfort/worried about them? Is it a sibling thing?

For context We did hear that while me and dh were at the hospital ds1 was worried and threw up everywhere and needed a lie down. (He has only ever been sick twice in his life)

Please be kind not sure as I'm worried my ds1 is growing up to be mean

I think this is 100% normal. Of course to an adult it sounds mean, but I wouldn't worry about it.

5 year olds have no filter. Saying he was "happy they could play on their own" is totally disconnected from the fact his brother has been hurt. I really wouldn't worry about it.

I think it's fairly normal at this age and kids often don't process or articulate their emotions very clearly so he may have been upset but not understood it himself.

I think five year olds in general can be incredibly kind and empathetic; there have been times when both at this age made me glow with pride and convinced me I have the most wonderful children in the world because they've done something so thoughtful and kind. Then the next day they'll do or say something so seemingly callous you worry you're bringing up a sociopath. As my eldest has turned 7 I've found his empathy is much more developed, it comes with time.

Leaving a 5 and 6 year old in charge of a 3 year old is just fucking stupid. FFS. What did you think would happen?

Thanks everyone for sharing similar stories. Children always amaze me whether good or bad. X

Ahhh! My gorgeous, lovely, sweet and wonderful 7 year old would have definitely made a comment like that at that age!! He loves his brother, but at the same time, he would at times have been happy to 'send him back' and get mummy and daddy back all to himself!! He's 7 now and empathy is starting to creep in..slowly!!!

It's totally normal!! Kids say things they don't fully understand or mean. Your DS is not some kind of psycho! He's just a normal 5 year old! And yes... you are expecting too much of him! :)

@Aquamarine1029 I didn't leave them" in charge" of ds2 I though they were with family members.

Won't don't you go and goad somewhere else. Your not needed here.

I think there's a distinction to be made between lacking empathy, and not understanding how to sequence remarks/how to distinguish between practical and emotional responses.

As adults, we can simultaneously think 'how awful! DS2 is badly hurt!' and be aware, dimly at the back of our minds, 'hmm, DS1 and cousin can carry on playing; the bin needs taking out; I must turn the hob off before I go; I do hope I have enough petrol ... etc'.

We have lots of thoughts at lots of levels of emotionality/practicality. But we know it would look crass to voice some of them.

Children don't always have that sense. Hence the child who says 'can I have granny's bed now she's dead'.

Apparently, when I was 5, I threw a large stone at my cousin's head, which cut him very badly. I had at the time been playing a game with that cousin, where my brother was the enemy. When the grown ups came running outside to see what had happened, I was in floods of tears explaining I had intended to hit my brother, the enemy. To me, the crucial issue was that I felt awful I'd 'betrayed' my ally in the game - I didn't understand that the injury was so serious.

I remember it so vividly, because I was in huge trouble and was locked into my dad's car while everyone else went off the the hospital, and I was only let out when they came back some hours later. I remember even then being quite unsure why I was being punished and pretty certain it must have to do with having accidentally broken the rules of the game rather than to do with the injury itself.

I definitely didn't grow up a psychopath! And yet I know at the time the adults around me thought my response just as heartless.

They definitely develop empathy at about 6/7 I’ve seen a big difference in my dd i. The last 18 months, prior to that she was helpful, polite and kind but didn’t really understand pain or others feeling sad. She does now.
They are definitely psychopaths at an early age!

Oh OP, there have been some very good, reasoned responses on here...I have found it very helpful to help me make sense of my own children and wonder why my eldest doesn't quite always do what I would expect (of myself, another adult or older child!)

It's awful when little ones hurt others and do not seem to have grasped what they have done!

DC1 is 4 years old and I do sometimes think he totally lacks any filter whatsoever, although he does come across as empathetic at times!

It's ok, don't dwell too much on this.

I do like that description of young children under 6 or so being psychopaths!

It really does sum up the lack of empathy.

Although thankfully that does develop in the future!

Yes @Racheyg it's true. Proper empathy and understanding starts to come in to the picture in about 18m time for your little boy.

He was scared as you had both left him, not because he hurt his brother. He can't understand that properly or the seriousness at his age, no matter how grown up he seems.

Next time he tries to off his threat to his heir apparent status - take him with you to the hospital (because he probably will do again at some point) It will help his understanding 😁

It's partly lack of empathy and partly just not having enough experience/understanding to put things in the right place of the scale of importance. So if you normally are the kind of parents who don't make a big deal about scrapes and bruises, for instance, he just might not realise that this was a much bigger deal than that. It's no t always obvious to a child what's really going on.

@Racheyg

*You're.

My 7 year old still lacks empathy if one of her younger siblings is hurt. She can also be the most unbelievably kind and thoughtful child. I wouldn't worry, I think the situation sounds easily within the realms of normal

Also my older 2 would have been fine playing alone (obviously with us in a nearby room) when they were 5 and 3. No issues I can recall, ever. All children are different.

(Clearly we'd be checking what they were up to regularly, but no need to be in the room at all times.)

OP, I don't think your DS was being mean/is growing up to be mean. It seems that both he and his cousin lied (saying they didn't know what happened) so I would have a stern word about lying. But, I would put this down to guilt because of what happened/shock/worry that he would be in trouble. I agree that the comment about now being able to play without his brother was just an observation; his brother was no longer there. And then the reality really set it that he'd hurt his brother, hence the throwing up. Don't be too hard on him.

He was scared as you had both left him, not because he hurt his brother.

I don't agree. At five years old, you can feel guilt for something you've done. He knew he'd hurt his brother and knew he'd gone to the hospital. No doubt his grandparents were giving him details/explaining this.

Not true @SnowyPaws5 5yr olds dont feel guilt. They feel shame, embarrassment and worry about being told off. Not guilt, they don't have the empathy skills for guilt yet at that age. It may appear to us as guilt in outward behaviour but it is not - it is learned social cues and behaviour.

Looking from another angle they had fully included ds2 in their play. Then there was an accident in every sense of the word which was a little hairy but no harm done in the scheme of things. They didn't hurt ds1 on purpose or even try to. Let it go.

I have a five almost six year old in a few weeks..id never expect him to safely supervise a three year old. Thats absolutely expecting too much, sorry.

However having said that. My son would be screaming for us if that had happened and I reckon would of cried with guilt (as he has done when he's accidentally hurt his older sister). So he defo seems to lack a bit of empathy I think. Buy maybe kids are all different at developing empathy.

People saying you shouldn't have left them are being unfair in my opinion. They are old enough to be left unsupervised in a safe space for short periods. I leave mine unsupervised to play while i make dinner etc. If my dd(5) is playing with her sister (15mo) I know they can be left to play though i regularly check in. That's not the same as leaving dd "in charge" as they would be in a room I considered baby proof playing together and i would be within earshot. I suppose the difference was the cousin and the change in dynamic.

Completely normal.

Not true @SnowyPaws5 5yr olds dont feel guilt. They feel shame, embarrassment and worry about being told off. Not guilt, they don't have the empathy skills for guilt yet at that age. It may appear to us as guilt in outward behaviour but it is not - it is learned social cues and behaviour.

I don't think you could ever possibly prove this one way or the other, so it is not sensible to be too absolute.

Personally, I do think small children feel both guilt and empathy, but I don't think it is well ordered.

As I have said, I have a very vivid memory of feeling deep guilt at this age. But, my guilt was for something adults thought was actively shocking - I didn't understand that a serious injury was the bigger deal, and not the politics of a game - and so they did not recognise my guilt.

I still remember exactly how I felt, though. And it was guilt.