To think my son's behaviour isn't typical for a 3 yo?

[laury124]

My DS (3) has always been a handful; we love him to bits and he's funny, affectionate and great fun to be with, but he has always had his challenges too. He's been a really poor sleeper from early on (awake for hours on end from birth) and even now wakes up shouting maybe three times a night (we also have a two month old DS so we're sometimes up 8 or 10 times a night between the two of them). He can't play by himself for even two minutes, he gets bored and needs an adult constantly to focus him and remind him to play. He doesn't sit still EVER and will run away on me if I'm not holding his hand tightly all the time, and needs constant supervision even in the house as he'll climb things and jump/fall off, pull things off the counters etc (this was going on way before his little bro was born so definitely not a recent thing!)

But my biggest concern is that he has the most intense tantrums that I have ever seen - none of my friend's kids do this and I wondered if it was typical or could there be something underlying it. If he's told 'no' or gets frustrated about something, it triggers these meltdowns where he smashes his toys off the floor (even the ones he loves dearly), hits us full across the face, screams, and anything is fair game to be pulled off the table or counters (kitchen knives, chopping boards, mugs). It could go on for an hour. My GP has been no help, and I mentioned it to the health visitor before but she said "boys will be boys" with a little eye roll so was not particularly helpful either! In fact it seems anyone I say it to uses that "boys" excuse but I just don't think that's true...yes my friends' sons are boisterous and energetic but they don't seem to have the same level of impulsivity and the tantrums. He's a danger to himself and I'm exhausted keeping a constant eye on him in case he hurts himself. I want to get him assessed (ADHD I would think!!) but then I wonder am I being over dramatic about the whole thing because of the responses I've got with the whole "boys will be boys", and maybe this is just typical 3 year old boy behaviour that we're somehow just failing to manage properly!

If you have concerns book see your GP and ask for a referral

Sounds tough! I don’t have any advice but I just wanted to say that I hate the way boys’ behaviour is often dismissed as ‘boys will be boys’ without any consideration at all of what the behaviour actually is! You’re his mummy, you know how he behaves and are worried that he’s not “normal”, that shouldn’t be ignored!

Have you tried filming him to show the GP/HV?

Sorry just to add not looking for medical advice, just wondering do others have preschoolers with similar behaviour and is this just par for the course, something we need to ride out, or am I correct that not all 3 year olds go through this!!

Lots of experience of pre schoolers. Difficult to say but doesn't sound normal to me. I would be asking for a review with the HV and a referral to child development

I have a nearly 2.8yo and 4yo boys. Both would Tey this sort of behavior and they are definately boisterous. But neither are allowed to hit anyone without serious consequences. Youngest is much more of a climber than eldest was and can climb up on kitchen tops and tables but is told off and taken down.
What sort of consequences or behavior management do you employ.
Both can have tantrums but are easily distracted out of them. I have seen some preschool girls have epic tantrums.
Really lazy to dismiss your concerns as just boys behavior.
A lot of what you describe sounds normal to a child that has no boundaries.

If you’re concerned enough to start a thread about it I would talk to your GP, it might be nothing in which case no harm done.
I’ve got quite a lot of experience with children in their early years too and tbh it doesn’t sound typical to me. Sorry.
I think it’s the impulsive behaviour and meltdowns that are probably the biggest concern.

I hope you get some support.
If your gp is unhelpful it might be worth trying a family support worker at a local children’s centre. They won’t be able to make a referral but they might be able to pester the people that do.

That does sound extreme laury - the running off and climbing things less so (I had a climber) but the excessive tantrums, lashing out at you and smashing things favourite sounds concerning. Of course kids have tantrums and are boisterous but this soundsmore extreme than that.
I think as a PP said - you’re his mum and if you feel it’s atypical then don’t give up trying to get him assessed.

Does he go to nursery? What have they said about his behaviour? It’s very very rare for an adhd diagnosis before age 7. However they could be assessing him. If he goes to nursery they should be able to refer him to a community paediatrician and start the ball rolling. They should be liaising with your HV too. Also have you asked at your local children’s centre (if you have them in your area) as they quite often can be a good support.

I would say his behaviour is not unusual for his age however much of it depends on other things such as behaviour management strategies, his communication skills etc

I would start a diary. Detail the trigger, the reaction, and how long it took before he calmed back down.

I’d also keep a log of each time he wakes at night and how long it takes to settle him back to sleep.

Sorry the GP and HV are being so dismissive.

DS had long, intense tantrums from being 10m. I now have a referral in the very long pipeline as he can still have intense meltdowns at 8. (He has a range of other signs of being neuro-diverse in some way).

There is a wall of "wait and see" for behaviour that should be matured out of, which is no help when you are struggling with a more intense form of "age appropriate" development. I'm hoping that we can finally get the dyslexia testing started 2.5 years after we were concerned at the lack of progress in literacy, and the extent of his difficulties compared to his strengths... he's still reversing and very phonetic.

It can take time to build up a picture. My first concern was when he was 2.5 and the HV visited for baby, and I mentioned his speech. It took a year to get action on SALT. He was a bloody awful toddler to dress... sensory issues with clothes have become apparent over the years and he is highly prescriptive. He his that child in the school playground in every kind of weather in shorts and t-shirt because he loathes trousers and all school jumpers/ cardigans. This explains my daily wrestling match to get clothes on his flailing toddler self. I learned to pick those battles years ago. He has what he needs avaliable to prevent hypothermia, but to battle on and on for years would have been fruitless.

Listen to your instinct. Go back to the GP. You may well be stalled, but get that paper trail started. Keep a record of your concerns/ his behaviours. Any particular triggers? Mine is worse when hungry/ thirsty/ transitions e.g. end of term/ holidays.

I would ask go for a referral to child development clinic as it can take a while for referral to come through however they won't begin to look at adhd until age 7 or in some cases the year they will turn 7.

Sorry, but that is not “normal” behaviour for an average 3 year old. And the whole “boys will be boys” bullshit is just that. People say it when they either can’t give useful advice or they don’t want to tell you to your face that they consider your child to be a pain in the arse. Hope you find some help with your DS.

Yes I think the boys excuse is lazy too. Poor little boys get a bad rap don't they!

The diary is a good idea and something we've actually started in last few days (Christmas thrown in there so not exactly representative so will keep it going for a couple of weeks!)

With regards boundaries, we try and be really consistent with how we manage it. When he throws or smashes a toy, it gets put away and he doesn't get it back till the next day. Have a little visual timer to show him how long he has left before getting out of the bath or switching off TV etc so no surprises. Very clear on boundaries around hitting, he is told that every single time and stopped immediately, brought out to the hall and spoken to firmly. He always bursts into tears after the tantrums and repeats that he's sorry really sorry. It's like he just loses control and can't help it...hand on my heart I wouldn't say there are no boundaries there, we try really really hard

It could be that he's just high energy and intense emotionally but I see why you're concerned and if I were you I'd push for a referral. The problem with three year olds is a lot of the behaviour that is indicative of something like ADHD is also normal behaviour and only differs in intensity and frequency. So your GP may be hearing "my three year old is energetic, likes to climb and sometimes has tantrums" and thinks so what? But what you're seeing may be significantly different from typical energetic, emotional three year olds.

Before you go for a referral I'd also look up advice under the assumption he does have ADHD and see if the techniques are helpful. Good luck OP!

How is his speech? From experience, boys who's speech comes in later do seem to have harder to manage behaviour and tantrums through frustration.

If you're worried though, I'd push for a referral. Does he go to nursery/preschool? Have they flagged anything?

Sounds like you've been through the ringer, AnotherPidgey. Hope the referral for your DS gets looked at soon and he gets the support he needs!!

Don't be fobbed off with people telling you you need firmer parenting boundaries. I don't think tantrums of that intensity sounds typical. Does he respond at all to distraction? Even being left alone with q chocolate biscuit? That sorts out most tantrums in my experience.

Keep asking for a paediatrician to review his development if you are worried

I had a DD like this - we were referred to child development but it was just something in her nature, and she grew out of it around 9/10. As an adult, she can't tell us why she did it. She says she just did.

I have 4 boys and i have to say all of them exhibited some or all of the behaviour you describe at 2/3. However, with the clothing issue, lack of sleep and the intensity/frequency I would suspect some sort of non typical behaviour going on (not a doctor, just experience). The caveat to that is that he is still very young and they can/do sometimes grow out of certain behaviours as they mature. One of mine has terrible anger/tantrums, smashing things, even now at 11 (though much less frequently). He is, I suspect, on the spectrum but only moderately. He does well at school, has lots of friends and is, generally very happy. My youngest at 8 is very physical and boisterous, was always crashing around, accidentally breaking things etc. The school were making noises about ADHD from Reception. However, at 8, he is growing out of it a bit and his schoolwork is improving (still struggles wiith literacy but getting better). I had him assessed by an Ed Psy earlier (had dyslexia concerns) this year who thinks it was just a maturity/personality thing, but to keep an eye on it for ADHD if he continues to be disruptive in class (chatting, not physical).

My point being that, even if he is on the spectrum, ADHD diagnosable etc, this can change as they get older and is not necessarily a huge issue. Also much of this is normal for some children in early childhood and might not persist. Which is why they wont look at diagnosing anything until 7/8. On the other hand, he, and you might need help with some of his behaviour when he starts school. So what I would do is try and get him "in the system" and assessed as much as you can at this young age, but also try not to worry too much. Especially if, as you say, he is generally a happy and affectionate/loving little boy. All mine are (were - some are teenagers 😁) and I think that is the most important thing to hold on to, as long as you are giving them structure and routine, and firm boundaries, it will be manageable.

I would second using ADHD behavioural advice even without a diagnosis.

We used ADHD behavioural management techniques with my daughter with some success. Her behaviour as a young child was similar to though possibly not as bad as what you describe, and we could almost certainly have got an ADHD or possibly ODD diagnosis if we'd pursued it. We managed things at home, and she improved hugely after puberty although she might still meet the criteria for an ADD diagnosis. Google Dr Barkley, there are some videos you can watch.

It's probably too early to get an ADHD diagnosis, but it would be worth getting a referral in case there is something else underlying, eg an ASD.

What's his diet like?

Many foods contain colours/additives that can trigger hyperactive behaviour in some children.

The shouting out at night/poor sleep patterns along with the rage and subsequent meltdown does set alarm bells for possible ADHD but it's s huge spectrum and toddler /young child behaviour can vary so much.

Keep a food & behaviour diary for a month then see GP & HV for a referral to have him screened. If he is on the spectrum, the earlier you do this the better for getting the right support in place for school.

He sounds EXACTLY like my DS at age 3.
My son is autistic with ADHD.
This behaviour is just boisterous boy stuff.
Get to your GP and INSIST On a referral to the nearest child development clinic for assessment.

You may not get an immediate diagnosis but it will get you in the system for follow ups and observations.

Sounds very like ADHD.

How are other areas of development?

NOT just boisterous boy stuff

Yes, also sounds like my DS at that age, now 8 and recently diagnosed with ADHD and ASD.

1-2-3 Magic is the behaviour management bible recommended for parents of children with ADHD by the NHS in our area. We’re not big fans, but it might be worth a look for you OP, especially as your child is younger. The Explosive Child by Ross Green is helpful too.

You have my sympathy. My boy is amazing. So smart, funny, interesting and loving, but he was such bloody hard work at that age!

Part of the problem will be because of his age there are a lot of overlapping behaviour between what is normal for a typically developing child and what isn’t. For adhd particularly you are unlikely to get any diagnoses for a few years because they need to be able to be sure and developmentally it’s hard when young.

That being said I would still be keeping a diary and asking for a referral to a developmental paediatrian to discuss your concerns