To think my son's behaviour isn't typical for a 3 yo?

[laury124]

My DS (3) has always been a handful; we love him to bits and he's funny, affectionate and great fun to be with, but he has always had his challenges too. He's been a really poor sleeper from early on (awake for hours on end from birth) and even now wakes up shouting maybe three times a night (we also have a two month old DS so we're sometimes up 8 or 10 times a night between the two of them). He can't play by himself for even two minutes, he gets bored and needs an adult constantly to focus him and remind him to play. He doesn't sit still EVER and will run away on me if I'm not holding his hand tightly all the time, and needs constant supervision even in the house as he'll climb things and jump/fall off, pull things off the counters etc (this was going on way before his little bro was born so definitely not a recent thing!)

But my biggest concern is that he has the most intense tantrums that I have ever seen - none of my friend's kids do this and I wondered if it was typical or could there be something underlying it. If he's told 'no' or gets frustrated about something, it triggers these meltdowns where he smashes his toys off the floor (even the ones he loves dearly), hits us full across the face, screams, and anything is fair game to be pulled off the table or counters (kitchen knives, chopping boards, mugs). It could go on for an hour. My GP has been no help, and I mentioned it to the health visitor before but she said "boys will be boys" with a little eye roll so was not particularly helpful either! In fact it seems anyone I say it to uses that "boys" excuse but I just don't think that's true...yes my friends' sons are boisterous and energetic but they don't seem to have the same level of impulsivity and the tantrums. He's a danger to himself and I'm exhausted keeping a constant eye on him in case he hurts himself. I want to get him assessed (ADHD I would think!!) but then I wonder am I being over dramatic about the whole thing because of the responses I've got with the whole "boys will be boys", and maybe this is just typical 3 year old boy behaviour that we're somehow just failing to manage properly!

My son will be 3 in April and, while challenging at times, doesn't behave like you've described.

He will often sit still and have a cuddle and a chat. He will play by himself, though prefers having someone to play with. He has tantrums but they don't last long. He throws stuff all the bloody time, though!

"Boys will be boys" is a bullshit excuse for people not to parent. One of my sons friends jumped on his head and made him cry. That was met with,"but that's just how boys play, isn't it?"

No. That is not how my sons plays at all!

A friend of mine has an 8 year old with ADHD.
She had to insist on referral because if the “boys will be boys” stuff,
I remember her saying to me that “I just know it shouldn’t be THIS hard”.
She was right, he has severe ADHD but it took a long time before anyone actually listened.

I agree with other posters, insist on a referral. You sound like you're doing a great job

That sounds really tough

Agree with referral and ignoring the hv!

I’ve a 3 year old boy. He tantrums when he doesn’t understand or can’t make himself understood. Also this Christmas he has struggled with over busy, noisy situations - I think it all overwhelmed him at bit.

I hope you get some help from your GP, you sound to be doing a great job x

As a mother of 2 disabled kids, trust your instincts. You will get people trying to reassure by saying. "all kids are like that" but actually it's not reassuring, it makes you feel like they're dismissing your instincts. You know your child better than anyone.

Something I was told once is to not actually say "no". Just saying "no" can be a trigger for some children, especially some who have additional needs. Instead, try saying you can have that toy once you have had dinner or because of x you're going to have this toy back tomorrow.

It's really really hard to do! But i have found it to be really effective. You're not giving in to them, your answer is still the same but you're just not using the word no. X

My DS is 3.5. He’s definitely on the boisterous side, but his behavior is not like what you describe. Some of that is typical for a 3 year old, but probably not all of it. He does get overexcited, climb and jump on furniture, run away, pester me a lot, throw things and have tantrums, but I think you’re dealing with some extreme behavior there. Good luck!

It doesn’t sound typical to me and I’d absolutely get advice.
In the short term though I’d be adapting the environment so that he can’t climb up on things as much as possible and keep things like knives out of reach. And maybe making a room safe where you can take him to calm down.
Does he just pull things on the floor during tantrums or when he is playing as well? What is his understanding like when you explain things to him? If his understanding is that of a regular 3 yr old I would be putting consequences in place that he can understand if things are broken or ruined. So because you smashed X and I have to buy a new one now we have to walk to the shop instead of getting the bus or now I can’t buy x magazine you like etc. Teach him that things cost money to replace and you only have a limited amount. Obviously this is a conversation you would have when he’s calm if things are broken during a tantrum. I would also give a severe consequence for hitting as ime of having a child with Sen and working in Sen I feel they need to know from a young age that that is absolutely off limits. Obviously what that consequence is depends on what the individual child is bothered about. For some taking a favourite toy for the day would be a deterrent but not for others.
Give him things he can do when he’s feeling angry or upset - squishy balls to squash, foam blocks he can knock down etc in a safe room that he can go to with you during meltdowns.

I feel for you OP as it sounds exhausting. I have some training in this area so can suggest a few ideas to make your life a little easier. It must be hard having two little ones.
I would rearrange your home to make it as safe as possible so you don't have to watch him constantly at home. Remove anything sharp or dangerous / delicate. Kids need to learn through trial and error, within reason. So if he jumps off the sofa and bumps his head, he won't do it again. I'm not talking about letting him walk out onto the main road or anything, but he should be able to potter round certain rooms in the house and potentially the garden without being followed. It sounds like he is quite controlled a lot of the time with the hand holding and supervision, this could be adding to his frustration. As well as the house adjustments, try to take him somewhere each day where he can run free (park/field or soft play). How is speech/communication? If limited, this may be adding to his frustration? If he does have one of the tempers you describe, identify a space in the house that is as safe as possible. Then when he tantrums, picking him up and putting him there until he calms down. I've known someone who cleared out the porch for this purpose and put some cushions in it and it worked a treat. Good luck x

Both my boys were similar. They both have ADHD diagnosis.

For diagnosis they need to display the behaviour in two (or more) settings. Therefore it's more usual to get a diagnosis once they're school age.

I recommend using 1,2,3 Magic by Thomas Phelan

Mine was like this, he's autistic, PDA to be precise. Ask your Gp for a referral. We started off with a paediatrician and sent for parenting classes, this seems to be fairly standard

I have three boys (plus DSS but he was four when I came into his life) and hate the ‘boys will be boys’. My three were all about the running off and didn’t play terribly well without an adult with them at that age, but tantrums like you describe just didn’t happen. They also all slept through the night absolutely fine from quite young, certainly no night time wakings like you describe.

Hi OP, What's his language skills like? Can he express himself enough so that he can be understood?
The spectrum of normal behaviour is wide. It could be normal, may not be. Too many variables like- environmental and parental factors. For example if he is chronically tired then he will evidently be grumpy, struggle to comply, short fuse etc. He is way too young to be diagnosed with adhd and would not be given medication. A diagnosis would only be a label to describe a bunch of symptoms anyway and behavioural interventions would be advised first. In the nicest possible way I would request family support and/or attend a parenting class so that you can better understand the function of his behaviour and maybe developing some more effective strategies for behaviour and sleep. In the first instance I would focus on the sleep difficulties. Good luck

Has he experienced any separation from you (health issues/hospitalisation/SCBU etc) or has he experienced any Domestic Violence? Did you have PND? Any of these things are now regarded as being enough to cause developmental trauma, which looks a lot like ADHD/ASD.

If this might be the case, I can fully recommend the National Association of Therapeutic Parents

I can also recommend 123 Magic as was suggested above, worked wonders for my son.

Definitely go to your GP/ Health visitor and request a referral over and over again until they listen. I was very fortunate, my wonderful HV listened on the phone and since I had had 2 other boys to compare to ( older) she immediately made the referral age 3 as i suspected adhd.
We were told ASD traits but no full diagnosis and left to our own devices, it was not until school age, 5, that he displayed issues in both settings of home and school that we got the ADHD diagnosis. I knew it at age 3, so trust your instincts.

Life is infinitely better on medication. We still have difficult days but we get there. I feel your pain, it's very hard.

Both mine were extremely challenging. Dc1 only slept through from over 1yo and dc2 from 2.5yo. Even then only sleeping 10h or so.
At dc2 literally runs off very fast. Would hide under the table at rhymetimes or run in cirles.
We have slight improvement by 3.5yo. Still can have very long screaming fits. Mine does seem ok at mursery but then a huge trigger is tiredness and physical exertion and they just dont have the space etc there. Also i fully expect school to be worse as there are a lot more demands and control, tiredness from concentration and trying to behave.

I used to threaten to throw toys in the bin if they throw them around.

Do you do anything like toddler classes? Gym/swimming/rugby/football to see how he controls himself then, following instructions.
Impulsivity is definitely worse when tired, but unfortunately some kids get more hyper when tired.

My lo used to get on overwhelmed and have horrible tantrums mainly because speech ability was behind what she wanted to say. She grew out of them at about 5 and was fine after that.
Have you tried giving him a space he can go to, to calm down such as his bed or even a little pop up tent.
We used to say DD was overwelemed rather than badly behaved, as it was better not to have blame for feelings beyond her control. I would leave her to calm down in her quite place then give her a hug.

Just out of interest, when you had your 2 year check did they do the emotional well-being questionaire? In my area we did that one as well as the development one and I remember there were lots of questions about how quickly they calm down during tantrums and ways of reacting. What you’ve described would have been flagged through that and I’m surprised you’ve had the boys will be boys brushoff. I can’t remember what it was called but if you didn’t do it, it might be worth a bit of googling as it might provide something tangible to go back to the GP with.

Some good advice. Do not be robbed off with the 'boys will be boy's' bs. I would absolutely read up about good techniques to use with children with some form of asd. I know my son absolutely has to feel in control. Raising him in an attachment style was a game changer and I think circumvented a lot of potentially difficult behaviours. Good luck.x

My sons 3 and diagnosed autisic and is also a climber, runner, has intense meltdowns where his favourite toys would also get trashed and has no impulse control or awareness of danger. But lots of other things too that point more towards autistic tendancies whereas it does sound like your sons tendancies point more towards ADHD.

I would definitely ask for a referral again and point out that no “boys will not be boys” and that you know this behaviour isn’t typical of a 3 year old

Also definitely read up on strategies and ways to handle their meltdowns and avoid them.
Since educating myself hugely it has made all our lives so much better. He has far less meltdowns and copes with everyday fine now