Abortion limits lowered part 2

[CosmicCanary]

I messed up the last one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3458517-To-think-late-term-abortion-rules-may-need-tightening-up

The limits should not be lowered in my view.
I am pro choice to the point where it is the womans choice as long as her body is required.

Again another very tragic case.

Why are you posting these links?

Above pist was to New

I'm pro choice. Up to full term, on demand, for any reason

Same here

I have never bought the argument that women will abort at 38 weeks just cos, no woman would gestate that late just to abort near the end for funzies.
If an abortion is done so late its only ever medical.
Plus then you have people like me, who dont discover they pregnant till 27 weeks. Why should we have our choices removed cos our body didnt show pregnancy earlier? If i was single when i discovered i would have sought abortion on mental health grounds cos there is no way id have coped on my own, i barely did even with dp around

My body, my choice, end of discussion. Its inhumane to reduce a woman to a mere incubator, which is what abortion laws essentially do at cut off points

@CosmicCanary I'm posting because I'm moved by this from different reasons to you. Although I do have sympathy for the Mothers. The fact that society sentences these woman shows it's not really acceptable. Although I agree they're desperate women.

No MsTerryPratchett, I have met one, my colleagues have met others. We obviously don't work in the same job role. I am glad you haven't met any!

I am not going into huge detail as it will be outing, but I worked in a very specialised unit. We worked with men and women who posed a substantial risk of harm to others. I can't really give more details except to say that, whether you believe me or not is irrelevant. The facts is, such women do exist.

Women's rights what about babies rights

We are talking a foetus here, not a baby
A baby, is born and separate from the mother
A foetus is not above a womans rights to her body, her life, what she endures physically and mentally.

Terry - also she didn't have an abortion for fun. It is currently illegal. So I haven't met anyone who has had an abortion for that reason. I have met a lady who wanted one for fun. My colleagues had met others.

I haven't met a serial killer or seen a four leafed clover. They are very rare. But I believe they exist.

That's the thing. I have worked with men who have killed more than one person. I have done really specialized jobs with some fairly unique psychological stuff.

The issue That I've observed has always been women having babies they probably shouldn't, rather than aborting babies for no reason.

MsTerryPratchett, are you saying I am lying? It very much sounds like it.

I too have worked with murderers and met lots of women having babies when they knew they would be removed at birth. What I haven't done is met every service user in the country. Many of my colleagues had been in the role for 25 years or more. And had worked in several locations. And yes, several had met women like the one I described. I too was shocked. It didn't occur to me to not believe them though. Should I not have done?

Actually Terry, out of genuine interest, why are you so doubtful of such women's existence. (Excluding the fact that you haven't met any, because you obviously can't have met everyone).

I bet you have met people who have done things that would amaze me, that I wouldn't have thought possible.

I'm not saying you're lying. I'm saying that it's incredibly rare.

The fact that society sentences these woman shows it's not really acceptable

By society, do you mean you?

I suppose there could be women who might say they want an abortion for fun. I imagine they're very rare.

Possibly less rare are women who won't explain why they want a termination, leading those around them to attribute motivation to them.

The existence of a very few women who might have no reason for a late termination doesn't seem to me like sufficient grounds to deny access to women who have very good reasons.

Excellent post, CardsforKittens, and the exact reverse of the apocalyptic scenarios envisioned by anti-choice apologists on this thread. And the last one.

@SpitefulMidLifeAnimal

OK, so how does the baby get out then?

You can see why late term abortions are the only option for some women.

Adoption. Not heard of it?

Why is it termed 'pro choice' when it's just pro abortion?

Forced birth is barbaric. What are we, breeding mares??

At any time, for any reason. Because my body is my dominion, as all women's bodies should be theirs.

I find it very surprising that so many people have such a blase and callous attitude to abortion (infanticide) at term.

I don't belive that a woman's right to bodily autonomy trumps the right of another human beings to life,and the law is in line with that.

At a certain point the woman has to give birth anyway (so it's not a forced birth) to either a life baby or dead one. If at a certain point the unwanted baby was delivered via c section, under general anesthetic (so the birth mother never has to see the baby, hear them cry) and then adopted then why is that such a terrible alternative to a late term abortion. (they are many couples who would adopt a newborn baby, it is older children who struggle to be placed).

Women used to give up babies for adoption all the time, I'm not saying it's not a very hard thing to get over, but they did and they lead normal lives, had families etc.

I personally am in favour of abortion but only up to a point when the baby is not viable, I don't believe that in one ward of a hospital doctors are desperately trying to save one preterm baby and in another they could be killing another of the same age. So yes I would advocate lowering the limit by a few weeks, unless serious disability is identified at the 20 week scan.

I thought I considered myself pro choice but I must say I'm struggling with the idea of abortion up to term. With a procedure up to term would they kill the foetus first? Why not give women the option of induction/c-section and give up the baby straight away? A foetus beyond 24 weeks (and sometimes before) can survive outside the womb so why deny them the chance to survive?

Women should be given the right to place their child for adoption with absolutely no come backs. I find late abortion for no reason abhorrent on a human level - it doesn’t bare thinking about in my mind.

You can see why late term abortions are the only option for some women.

Adoption. Not heard of it?

Totally agree purpledaisies so many people on here are acting if the only alternative is forcing parenthood on these women.

I completely comprehend that for the vast majority of women (or girls) that have late term abortions that motherhood is not a viable or sensible option. But that doesn't mean that those babies have to die.

I read the 32 reasons article in the last post, and it didn't convince me that the limit should be kept as it is or abolished altogether.

I disagree with late abortion of fully formed babies its just not right when there are alternatives to these women not having to be mums such as adoption as pp brought up.
That story of the woman putting her baby down the drain is horrible I have sympathy for that poor baby being thrown away like that. Babies and children rank so low in our society you see it all the time people hurting them or killing them and getting lenient jail terms.
I think humans can be very selfish unfortunately and see themselves as above everything else in this world. To me you arent above a full term babys life.

Why is it termed 'pro choice' when it's just pro abortion

Because, er...the woman can choose to abort OR give birth and keep OR give birth and give up for adoption.

HTH

But then you knew that...or.did you? So many tragically thick posters on these threads.