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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Reassurance we have made the right decision

79 replies

Proudteachermummy · 23/12/2018 10:16

I'm a long time lurked but not posted.
Looking for some reassurance really that DH and I have made the right decision.

My FIL is terminal ill and 2 weeks ago we were given the devastating news that his care is being moved to end of life and palliative care. He is bed bound, can not do anything including feeding by himself, he is on a liquid diet and relies of a breathing mask and a cough assist machine. He has 24 hour nursing care. The doctors can't tell us how long but likely to be in the next few weeks as deteriorating quickly.

Anyway we have 2 young children 9 and 6. When we found out about the end of life care we took the children up to see him and it was the most amazing time, laughing, smiling, sharing old memories and lots and lots of cuddles. DH and I had already spoken about making that visit be the last one for the DC but has we left and one of DC said could that be the last time they go up to see him as he was so happy (he hadnt been like that for a while) and she wanted that as her last memory of him. We said to her of course and we want her to remember FIL happy.

Anyway the DC haven't been up any more, we have spoken to FIL and MIL about it and explained the impact on the children of seeing FIL suffering etc, they were both amazing and completely understood. FIL was understandably a bit upset because the DC are what keep him going, but as parents the well being of our children has to come first. (I sound selfish don't I, that my children come before a dieing man).

Anyway a family member has commented that she feels we have made the wrong decision, that he will now give up because he isn't seeing his Grandchildren and that we are basically making our DCs grieve before they need to. (Bare in mind, MIL, DH and I are the only ones who visit every other day, we all take it in turns, so he always has someone with him). It has been one of the hardest decisions to make but seeing your DC worried about visiting because they don't know how he will be when we visit. Our youngest DC even said what happens if Grandad dies when we are there? I just can't put my DC through it anymore, does that make me sound awful? This family member has been quite vocal on their thoughts, although rarely visits FIL and hasn't seen our DC since last Christmas, when we visited their house.

DH is struggling so much seeing his DF dieing and has been amazing in caring for him, this family member has now made him feel 10 times worse thinking us stopping the DCs going will kill him and that we are putting our children through the grieving stage to soon.

Maybe we are wrong, but I have to think of our DCs and the memories they have to live with.

Any thoughts would be great. We are just parents, in a very difficult and heartbreaking sitution, trying to deal with it the best we can.

(Sorry for the long post, it's been playing on my mind)

OP posts:

Glittertwins · 23/12/2018 20:03

My grandmother was in a very similar way to your FIL. We told the DCs (10) that she was very poorly and that she will not get better. We also decided not to take them to see her as she would have terrified them - my mum said she was in a terrible state and it was better for them to remember her as she was prior. I hope he is at peace soon.

E20mom · 23/12/2018 20:07

You know your own children best. Just do what you think is best.

Strongecoffeeismydrug · 23/12/2018 20:46

My dad passed away when I was 16 but my last memory of him was of him laughing and joking ❤️
My mum told me daily how dad was doing but she asked if I wanted to see him or remember him happy x
I'm so glad I didn't see a broken stranger lying on bed attached to breathing machines I saw my dad happy x
A hard decision I'm so glad I made x

GummyGoddess · 23/12/2018 21:41

Could you have the children make a video letter to show him if he can still focus on it? Just an update on what they're doing, no pressure.

whatonearthmother · 23/12/2018 21:53

I think you are making the right decision. My daughter is six and when dad was very poorly we took her for a last visit. Mum went in first to make sure he was ok and then we went in. She has a lovely visit and he was able to cuddle her and talk. When it was nearer the end I didn't take her and she just remembers cuddles with her grandad x

Mondaytired · 23/12/2018 21:57

I remember seeing my DGF for the last time, he had terminal cancer and had a nasty fall and his face was bruised and his head.
I wish I hadn’t, I was probably around 14?
That is my lasting memory of him... I’ve got some great ones but some 17 years later that is my last one... that wasn’t him. Until 6months prior to his death he was outgoing, driving too fast (for 87!!!) and walking up the 3 peaks.
don’t make the same mistke my parents did!

GoodStuffAnnie · 23/12/2018 22:03

I don’t think children should be protected from all of life. Of course there are lines but my line is pretty far. I would take them again. It’ll be so lovely for Grandad. If we lived in any other culture or at any other time in history, the children would probably be there at the moment of death.

greendale17 · 23/12/2018 22:05

I don’t agree with you whatsoever.

If my DS was stopped from seeing my dying father it would kill him. My father lives for my DS. I couldn’t do that to my DS or my father.

Fatted · 23/12/2018 22:14

You've made the right decision. I was 18 when I first experienced a grandparent dying and even then I found it very difficult to see the deterioration in their health prior to it.

My dad stopped me from going to see his mum before she passed away and I was in my 20's then. As he said at the time, she had gone a while before she actually passed away and it was difficult enough for him to deal with, without having to worry about how we were coping.

Your DC has asked not to go again and I think you need to respect that.

Littletabbyocelot · 23/12/2018 22:15

One of my great aunts (closer than most grandparents) died when I was 13. My mum made the decision that we would have a last visit while she was still coherent - about 4 weeks before she died. I was 16 when my second great aunt died and was considered old enough to see her until the end if I wanted. I saw her the day before she died: she couldn't talk but the fear and fury in her eyes has haunted me for 20 years. I was not equipped to process it and it took several years before I was able to see past that memory to all the positive ones.

To be honest, I barely felt old enough at 37 to deal with my dad in the days before he died. He opted not to see my children once he went into a hospice. Not how he wanted to be remembered.

Worsethingshappen · 23/12/2018 22:19

Children can cope with so much more than we think. But only if parents/carers feel able to
Support them appropriately. Personally I think the reality of death and dying shouldn’t be hidden.
Children tend to absorb the attitude of the important adults around them. If you don’t feel comfortable with it then the children won’t.

chaoscategorised · 23/12/2018 22:22

Having very recently watched an in-law die (relatively peacefully, at the end of a very long and horrible illness, so a relief in a way) and not having slept through a night since because I keep having nightmares of seeing her struggling to breathe in the days before her death, I think you're doing the right thing. Accepting and understanding that death is difficult and final and being somewhat okay with that - as I was as a child who had various grandparents die - is very different to seeing the mechanics of it.

MrsBuckettt · 23/12/2018 22:26

I think it should be the children's decision, if they don't want to they shouldn't have to, and vice versa.

ItIsChristmasTime · 23/12/2018 22:28

I’m sorry your FIL is so ill and of the situation you are in.

I’m glad your family member has now contacted you and it sounds like everyone is in agreement with what you had already decided. I do agree with a PP about the possibility of your DC making short videos that you can take it (or send) to your FIL so he can feel as if he is maintaining contact and seeing his grandchildren.

Bluelady · 23/12/2018 22:37

💐

Juells · 23/12/2018 22:39

HRTFT

When my mother was living with me as an invalid, I was upset about a relative visiting and criticising. The district nurse told me it was absolutely classic,t relatives who are rarely there sweep in and find everything wrong, tell the carer what should be done, and how, and then sweep off again leaving the carer to get on with things.

fadingfast · 23/12/2018 22:48

Sorry that you are dealing with such an awful situation. I can see that you've already made the decision not to take your children to see FIL again. FWIW I think you've absolutely made the right decision. Three years ago my MIL was dying and we took the children to see her to 'say goodbye' once we realised the end was near. In retrospect I really wish we hadn't. She was bedbound and not able to communicate. She was peaceful and not in any distress, but I don't think it was the right memory to leave them with. They were 11 and 7 at the time. It was Christmas Eve and she died the following day.

for you and your family. It's horrible at any time of year but especially at Christmas.

mumsastudent · 23/12/2018 22:50

there is always some awkward b... who isn't involved/isn't doing anything to help will always, I mean. always say that you aren't doing something right - & they always know better & the people most closely involved are not doing enough or doing things right & if only you listen to them….IGNORE - you are doing the best you can do balancing the needs & what is best. IF & mean IF you want to film children playing or talking to you & take this back to your dfil...maybe but not pressurized just natural. a random thought..

Daisymay2 · 23/12/2018 22:50

Sorry you are all going through this experience.
My dad had dementia and DB and I decided that the grandchildren would not visit after he had become very very confused. ( His team beating Man U and asking what his grandad who died in 1955, thought of it.) They remember him as the person they laughed and joked with.
I think you are doing the right thing, especially as a DC has suggested that they want to remember him when he was happy.
Glad your relative has apologised and is supporting your decison now.

Original poster

Proudteachermummy · 23/12/2018 22:50

For those saying the DCs shouldn't be sheltered from death, they certainly haven't been. Without saying the disease he has, this has been a disease all of us including the DCs knew at time of diagnosis was a progressive and terminal illness. Our DCs have watched their DGD deteriorate for a few years now, he has been on the breathing machines, 24 hour nursing care, not being able to feed himself, our DC feeding him, brushing his hair, giving him is medication. They have played a massive part in this journey and are fully aware of death, we have had many conversations about death, what happens, funerals (which they are coming to and play an active role as that's what they want).

What we are protecting our DCs from is witnessing the man they adore fighting for this last breathe, confused, not able to eat, choking on his own salvia and fluids each time he tries to drink. The list goes on. I completely agree children shouldn't be protected from death but do they really and honestly need to witness a cruel (and yes it really is a cruel) end! Do they need to be frightened of dieing? At the moment they are at peace with what dieing means, our eldest DC has spoken about how it would be nicer for GDG to die as he won't be hurting anymore and he can have a party with their other GDG.

We haven't stopped the DCs visiting until this point. We are fully prepared and able to support our children through this process.

OP posts:

AbbieLexie · 23/12/2018 22:59

to you and your family at this devastating time. Please have every confidence in your decision as the parents of your DC. Some deaths are not pleasant - very wise words from your eldest DC. {flowers]

irishe · 23/12/2018 23:06

I am a therapist and have been involved with bereavement/grief counselling for many years.

As many pp have said and as this thread demonstrates there is no right or wrong decision just what you and you children (dependent on age/maturity) feel is right at the time.

Sometimes a decision is made with the best intentions but later on with hindsight a different choice might have been made. But we all live in the present and can only make the decision that seems right at the time. Sometimes these decisions are painful compromises and don’t feel “right” at all, just the best of poor options.

FWIW I have had many clients over the years talk through memories of seeing loved ones die, there is a huge range of experience as can be imagined. However the ones who have watched loved ones struggling to breathe can hold these very difficult memories for years and it can be hard to come to terms with. Many have said, they wished they hadn’t seen it.

Having said that, I am working with those who are struggling with their grief reaction, so it is not a representative sample of the general population.

Not sure if any of that is helpful but trusting in your own judgement is all you can do.

I wish you all well.

Amanduh · 23/12/2018 23:27

I made that decision with my auntie, as an adult.
I don’t regret it.
You are absolutely in the right. And to all of you xxx

hairypaws · 23/12/2018 23:41

Going through similar too. You have made the right decision and no one has the right to criticise your parenting choices. You know your children best and therefore are best placed to make this decision.

We're doing the opposite as my family member looks not too bad (although very thin) but realistically only has a few weeks left. The children don't know the full extent of his illness and we're not telling them until we have no choice. They still see him regularly though.

It's tough and I'm sorry you are going through the same, it's heartbreaking actually. Stay strong and know you are doing the right thing.

ladycarlotta · 24/12/2018 09:29

Sheesh, the people on this thread saying children mustn't be shielded from death! Maybe not, but I see NOTHING inappropriate with shielding them from this kind of suffering - choking, loss of speech, loss of autonomy, loss of bodily function.

I watched my dear grandfather go through this kind of cruel, protracted death as a 30-year-old adult and it was horrifying and distressing enough for me. There were things I know he'd much rather I had not seen, and which he was ashamed of - although of course it didn't diminish him in my eyes, it was a huge loss of dignity that he had no control over. Children don't NEED to be exposed to that, and frankly it'd be pretty upsetting for FIL to have to go through it in front of them and see them frightened or upset because of him. It's not only the children who need to keep hold of the happy times together.

OP, you are making the right decision informed by your children and your FIL's wishes. Other people might choose differently, and that's OK too, but I'm glad that even this relative of yours can now acknowledge that they were wrong in the situation.

I wish you and your family a peaceful and happy Christmas, and send many good wishes to your FIL.

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