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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Roald Dahl books should be banned in schools and libraries....

249 replies

Oakenbeach · 21/12/2018 23:36

.... because he’s known to have had expressed some highly anti-Semitic opinions.

OP posts:
dapplegrey · 22/12/2018 18:57

Decline and Fall is racist but I wasn’t aware of anti semitism in it. Admittedly I haven’t read it for years.

TomPinch · 22/12/2018 19:00

Tompinch, you mean in the past so-called free society used to ignore racism and sexism? I think you will find now that a free society for all means that all should be able to experience their society without being freely abused and then being told "don't concern yourself with the thoughts and views of our geniuses".

Fine. So where is the racism and sexism in Dahl's books?

Mrs Fox? The Oompa Loompas?

Weightsandmeasures · 22/12/2018 19:05

Tompinch, I've have no where stated he expressed racism in his books. Hence why I said the books should not be banned but he (the man) should not be celebrated as his was openly anti-semitic.

olivesarelife · 22/12/2018 21:15

His books always had the ability for me to vividly imagine everything i was reading. One of my best memories of primary school. No his books should not be banned.

mirialis · 22/12/2018 21:41

I wouldn't be reading any of his repulsive views

How do you know they are repulsive unless you read them?

That is the biggest problem today and how "Fake News" has taken such a hold. When someone tells you that so-and-so said all x are y or - in light of the fact this is a predominantly female forum - Germaine Greer has said that "rape is just bad sex" or such like, why would you just accept it and not actually read the full text for yourself and make the judgement? Why do you allow others to decide for you what you should or should not be reading or thinking?

YetAnotherUser · 22/12/2018 22:06

You can find a copy of Mein Kampf in most libraries, I really dont think Roald Dahl's literature is much to be worried about.

MrsTerryPratcett · 22/12/2018 22:22

Actually @mirialis upon reflection you're probably right. I have read primary texts by Hitler and IRA leaders etc. Politics degree; know your enemy!

I resorted to Breitbart after the Cologne attacks because no one else was reporting it. So I do agree. Critical thinking rather than self censorship.

CommanderDaisy · 22/12/2018 23:54

Hmm,
Wonder where the OP went?

Buzoei · 23/12/2018 00:03

Books should never be banned, as it requires someone or a group of people to be a moral judge of what is good or bad, and that's a terrible idea.
If you dont like an author or a book, don't read it, but don't ask for it to be banned.

Rafabella · 23/12/2018 00:18

Yes YABTTTTU!

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 23/12/2018 01:16

Hmm,
Wonder where the OP went?

Well i wondered that, she was starting to struggle to justify her statement any way but she doesnt seem to have come back since people have started mentioning that dahl fought in ww2, played a part in the invention of a cerabal shunt, raised awarness of the importance of measles vaccs, i'd like to add wrote books in support of dyslexia, the Dahl foundation support many many children.

Yes Dahl was not a nicd person, he was expressed some nasty views, he was grumpy old man who had no time for any one leadt of all children even his own with the exception of his grandaughter, even sophie admits life with grumpy as she calls him were far from nice or easy. But you can use that as jumping off point to show thats not how its acceptable.

TemptressofWaikiki · 23/12/2018 01:26

The book Mein Kampf contains a lot of plagiarism. Hitler pretty much copied the writings of Count Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain (Wagner’s son in-law), as well as other 19th century pseudo-scientists that thought to prove the inferiority of races. In order to understand the rise of power of Hitler and the political circumstances, one should absolutely read these books and their historic context. You can and actually should study what be considered unpalatable works to be able to discuss and condemn their content. That is the difference between intelligent discourse and learning form history, versus ignorance/dictatorship. Some of my Jewish relatives are pretty scholarly and there has been an ongoing debate about Dahl and his stance towards Jews. It is too simplistic to dismiss him as anti-Semitic with some comments taken out of context. I do like some of his books but like many exceptional, creative people, he was a very complex and troubling character and probably quite a stinker of a human being. Not many historic artists and writers would hold up to contemporary scrutiny. I’d say even within our own generations, there has been a gradual shift towards recognising that certain attitudes, expressions etc are no longer appropriate. We continually learn and become aware of things that we used to perhaps not consider offensive. It just is preposterous to try and scrutinised historic art, songs and literary works to present day sensibilities. Dogmatic zealots like OP are the biggest danger to any evolved civilisation.

MaluCachu · 23/12/2018 01:33

Most bollocky post of the century,unclench and have a fucking gin!Biscuit

Cherries101 · 23/12/2018 01:33

If you start banning books you’re no better than Hitler or Stalin. We live in a country where we’re free to express our opinions — everyone. Even the people whose opinions we disagree with. If you want to educate your kids then let them read Dahl and also let them read by pro-semetic writers.

TomPinch · 23/12/2018 05:07

Weightsandmeasures

Whereas I say his impact on society was through his books, and as his books are rightly celebrated, so should he.

Generally I know little of the personal views of my favourite writers and artists and I care even less. Regarding it as a matter of importance is intolerant, censorious, and most definitely a hallmark of an unfree society.

Weightsandmeasures · 23/12/2018 15:29

You care less because his views did not impact on you. Your ignorance is not an excuse. Those who are on the receiving end of his views will care.

JAPAB · 23/12/2018 17:24

Wonder if War Of The Worlds should be gotten rid of.

I re-read it a few years ago and noticed a line along the lines of 'perhaps the invaders see us the way we see inferior races'.

Not very PC.

Also reading older books you can easily come across sentiments that betray a belief in gender roles and the appropriatness of actions depending on gender, and so on. Just par for the course really.

No doubt future gens will read our books and think how un-PC some ideas are.

SummerStrong · 23/12/2018 18:00

What a hysterical overreaction Grin

There are lots of fantastic books written by authors with some strange political views, as long as they aren't featured in the storyline of children's books then there's absolutely no problem, obviously.

Meangirls36 · 23/12/2018 18:05

Wheres the evidence that he had anti Semitic view's?

DeepanKrispanEven · 23/12/2018 21:58

Meangirls, if you google his name and "anti Semitism" you'll find it.

TomPinch · 26/12/2018 23:37

@Weightsandmeasures

You care less because his views did not impact on you. Your ignorance is not an excuse. Those who are on the receiving end of his views will care.

In fact you're wrong. Roald Dahl did express views that I could argue impacts on me in a negative way. He actually does this in one of his books. I don't let that put me them.

It was only after I thought about your comment that I remembered that specific view. In general I don't know about my favourite authors' views.

More importantly though, your last comment is a very presumptious remark to make of someone about whom you know nothing. In fact it's a presumptious remark to make towards anyone you do know unless you know that person's own background and history pretty well.

Writers say all sorts of things - unsurprisingly, as the fact of writing a book means that they will express all sorts of views in all sorts of ways. It is inevitable over time that as society's views change our views on the author will change, but this ought to be as expressed through their works. That's why society still reads - and celebrates - authors like Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, Dickens, Mark Twain, Austen and the Bronte sisters. Not only that, but we still celebrate their books, even if they also express views society now rejects, because they are rightly still recognised as great works of literature.

What you think should happen instead is that we should be made to take into account authors' personal views and remember them for that as well as their books. Well, there are plenty of societies that have taken that sort of approach, but none of them are ones that I or I suspect you would want to live in. That's the sort of society that burns books because the author is "wrong" and punishes people for reading and enjoying them. It's a view that also infantilizes people by believing they cannot cope with off-message views.

I am not going to let myself be put off books because the author may at some point in his or her life held repugnant views. I'm certaintly not going to be put off some author because I disagree with their views and I think anyone who does runs the risk of becoming close-minded.

Roald Dahl was the writer of a large number of extremely successful children's books. He ought to be celebrated for that reason.

He was also imperfect like the rest of us. So what.

Oakenbeach · 27/12/2018 00:03

Well i wondered that, she was starting to struggle to justify her statement any way but she doesnt seem to have come back since people have started mentioning that dahl fought in ww2

Here... I see the thread is still going.... I actually have no problem at all with children reading Roald Dahl. I was just seeing how much support there was for censorship of those with unpalatable views. It seems there isn’t, and I’m very glad.

OP posts:
Thewifipasswordis · 27/12/2018 00:09

Walt Disney was a Nazi sympathiser and a purposed supporter apparently so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Lets ban the world and white wash it instead of using it to educate future generations on how not to be a cunt, OP, hey?

Thewifipasswordis · 27/12/2018 00:11

Supposed* ffs auto correct

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