To say no to my cleaner coming over Christmas?

[ettyz]

My cleaner who works 5 days a week doing 6 hours a day for us and gets above the average wage for a cleaner, has said that she needs to work next week. I said no to working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday as obviously it’s Christmas and no to Friday as I have people over. She’s obviously self employed and we are her only cleaning job, but I don’t really fancy someone cleaning when Me and dh not at work, all the kids are at home and we just want to relax without anyone in the home. She said it’s too much money for her to lose out and she won’t be able to afford to not work those days. she hates Christmas and doesn’t have any family to spend it with so was actually asking to do Christmas Day! It’s not my fault she hasn’t budgeted for it but we had told her when we first took her on in April that we don’t need her services over Christmas. Aibu to say no to her working those days next week, I don’t want to upset her. We are hosting Christmas at ours so no time when we won’t be at home next week for her to pop in and clean, plus I’m at home so I’ll be able to do it anyway!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3453696-To-not-pay-childminder-for-Xmas-day

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Nice to know cleaners are valued more than cms.

Nothing wrong with cleaning but while op pays above going rate for her cleaner she has been called all sorts for not paying her a weeks pay and a bonus but cms are absolute cfs to charge for thier holidays.
Havent seen anyone suggest op takes her antiques round to cleaners house for them to clean on Xmas day either!

Its very enlightening to know how cms are perceived by the good folks on mn.

Washing the wood every day will be causing it to rot!!!!!

Willow2017 hahaha I thought that as I was reading this thread. No CF comments for the cleaner!

This post doesn't add up to me. The OP must have a big family to occupy and use a house this size and require this much cleaning. This doesn't fit with the glib assurances that she will do it all over Christmas.
The description of duties is odd, mopping wooden floors? Seven bathrooms, but not bedrooms , cleaning up breakfast. Again, surely more needed at Christmas. No answer to ' are you a hotel'? Friend who 'says all is fine' is vague.
I think a lot is being left out.
My hunch is that OP runs her own business, B &B and is closed over Christmas thus there is much less work.

this is a joke yeah ?

Dang. Our lovely cleaning woman comes three hours a week. We have a crumbling Victorian heap, only one bathroom, though. We do our own breakfast clearup. I’m giving her next week’s pay and a Christmas bonus. I like her and she puts up with our dirty tip of a house.

I think the OP has guessed that if she mentions she runs a business that posters wil be more on the cleaners side.

Willow2017 I don’t think they really compare. Firstly most people spend far less on a cleaner weekly than a childminder, so a weeks payment but no ‘service’ is something that they can afford. Also a week without service from the cleaner only has a small consequence for the client. But a week without service from the childminder means that the client is financially disadvantaged as they have to pay for alternative childcare.

Also quite clearly in this post the cleaner is an employee and therefore entitled to employee benefits! A childminder isn’t an employee as they are able to offer their service to multiple clients. They are self employed and running a business from Their own home. If they are unable to offer their clients their usual service then they should either not charge, or make alternative arrangements with another childminder.

@nakedscientist
I do have a large family, and No I don’t own a hotel or b&b, my house is just a family home. My mum, dad, brother and his family are coming to stay at ours from Christmas Eve till Boxing Day, so can all help clean and I don’t really want my cleaner to be at my home during this as I’d find it awkward, and won’t be able to relax as I’d want to help her clean too.

I’ve met my cleaner maybe 15 times as I work away during the week, so we’re not overly friendly with one another, another reason why I don’t want her working while I’m at home, even though I wouldn’t notice her I still feel bad to sit on my arse while she works.
My cleaner is JUST a cleaner, she doesn’t food prep, or wash clothes or iron, she’s there to just clean. I have an ironing lady to do my ironing so I can’t give her ironing to do, as some of you have mentioned that I should give her something to do during the time when I don’t need her.

She has known about there not being any work since April, and I reminded her in November and beginning of this month. She earns well above the average pay for a cleaner and she isn’t through an agency either, she also receives a lot of perks of working for us, as a way of thanking her for her service, so she’s not being hard done by. She’s also receiving a bonus and some presents from us.

Are you in the U.K.?

She has known about there not being any work since April, and I reminded her in November and beginning of this month.

Just repeating myself, really, but this is what makes me not feel that bad for her. It's not like you've sprung this on her. It sounds like she was hoping to railroad/guilt you into giving her work.

Have you not got any friends who may want her?
Or could she perhaps house sit for people who are away?
She sounds desperate, perhaps you should try find a way to help her.

OK OP, your're not a B and B, fair enough.

You may not realise it but your lifestyle sounds very different to a lot of people on here. I wonder if you may be better to discuss this with people who are in the same country/earning band/know your circumstances?

Also you seem to be sure you are in the right, maybe you are, but I doubt that many on this thread will agree.

You are being a bit mean not paying her, Morticia. I would imagine that Cousin Itt sheds a lot, so you’ll probably need her.

If you're as well off as you make out, just pay the woman for the holidays. I'm sure her wage is just pennies to you.

Nice to know cleaners are valued more than cms.
Nothing wrong with cleaning but while op pays above going rate for her cleaner she has been called all sorts for not paying her a weeks pay and a bonus but cms are absolute cfs to charge for thier holidays.

Big difference the cleaner is available to work, and is essentially an employee based on this set up. Where as the CM is not available to work, and is genuinely self employed.

@NorthernRunner she’s known for quite a long time that there’s no work next week, couldn’t she of organised herself some work.

ettyz yes maybe but perhaps something came up with her other job. I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♀️ it wouldn’t take much for you to help her though would it? People don’t generally ask to work over Christmas and Christmas Day for no reason.

Why should you pay her. She's self-employed. Self employed people don't get paid holidays they have to account for it in their normal earnings. Although I would check the definition of employed and self employed people. You may find you are caught out by her being considered employed and if you asked her to leave you might be responsible for redundancy pay. You might also be required to pay sick leave and holiday pay and pay employers taxes and Ni etc

www.gov.uk/employment-status

What type of employment a person has ie worker, employee or self-employed is based on the definitions in the link above, not what the worker themselves or the person that pays them is calling them.

And how do you need a cleaner for 6 hrs a day! You just have a big house!

I am always opposed to being a dick but I was thinking a person who owned such a grand manor and employed a variety of domestic help, might understand how to use of and have correctly.

She is not self-employed if you are her only client. As you are taking advantage of her 'self-employed' status to avoid paying all the things which employers do such as NIC, holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay etc., the least you can do is pay her holiday for Christmas. You are breaking the law, and that is without me passing judgement on your moral code

If this is real you are a tight bitch OP,.

She earns well above the average pay for a cleaner and she isn’t through an agency either, she also receives a lot of perks of working for us, as a way of thanking her for her service, so she’s not being hard done by. She’s also receiving a bonus and some presents from us

She is hard done by because you are ripping her off. She’s your employee and your are not complying with employment law which protects her.

A present doesn’t make up for the nearly 5 weeks paid holiday you owe her and NI contributions for her. What about her pension ?

You are treating her very very badly. And breaking the law.

maybe you should pay her for the week instead of a bonus?

Offer to pay her a reduced rate

Tbh if you can afford to employ a cleaner for 30 hours per week it sounds as if you can afford to take the hit

Very jealous of you having a cleaner
For that many hours

Your home must be spotless