To say no to my cleaner coming over Christmas?

[ettyz]

My cleaner who works 5 days a week doing 6 hours a day for us and gets above the average wage for a cleaner, has said that she needs to work next week. I said no to working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday as obviously it’s Christmas and no to Friday as I have people over. She’s obviously self employed and we are her only cleaning job, but I don’t really fancy someone cleaning when Me and dh not at work, all the kids are at home and we just want to relax without anyone in the home. She said it’s too much money for her to lose out and she won’t be able to afford to not work those days. she hates Christmas and doesn’t have any family to spend it with so was actually asking to do Christmas Day! It’s not my fault she hasn’t budgeted for it but we had told her when we first took her on in April that we don’t need her services over Christmas. Aibu to say no to her working those days next week, I don’t want to upset her. We are hosting Christmas at ours so no time when we won’t be at home next week for her to pop in and clean, plus I’m at home so I’ll be able to do it anyway!

Pay her for the week as normal but have her come in before your guests arrive to give you a break before hosting. You'll have plenty of other things to get on with - even if it's having a break!

You would be very unkind to not pay her for the week.

If it really bothers you that much, sit her down in the new year and go over holidays again and say that from that point onwards, she needs to budget for times she's not working. Be gracious and don't mention Christmas. You're very lucky. Share a bit of that with someone who financially isn't as lucky as you and who is going to be lonely over the holidays, and, presumably, is a valued part of your life (she's trustworthy - with her weight in gold for that alone!).

Me and dh can afford it

So you can afford to pay her for her Christmas week off like any other responsible employer.

*worth

Surely a house that large (7 bathrooms?!) you wouldn’t even notice she was there?

Pay her. Is she more of a housekeeper than a cleaner?

Do you really want to be spending 6 hours a day cleaning over Xmas OP? And if you're cooking / ordering the chef around in top of that?
I'd ask her to come in Xmas Eve, then the Thurs and Fri then the Tues Jan 2nd otherwise she'll have a huge back log to get through.

You are so tight I can't believe it. I'm paying my cleaner over x mas, although I only have 1 bathroom

I'm sure I'm just a mean person, but I'm with you here. She's explicitly turned down employment, preferring to remain self-employed. That has certain upsides for her. It also has certain downsides - the key one being that the work (and hence the pay) is irregular and not guaranteed. Cheeky of her, IMO, to expect the good without accepting the bad.

Also, she had eight months' notice of this...!

Wouldn't it make more sense to employ two (fictional) cleaners as the could get the work done in less than half the time and cover for each others holidays.

So Why aren't you paying her ?

And if you are So sure you are right not to, why are you posting? Crumbs, it's such a dilemma....

I’m not paying my cleaner over Christmas

I've read this thread with interest re the employed/self-employed debate. As
PPs have said, whether the OP or the cleaner choose to call the cleaner "self-employed" is not determinative of whether the cleaner is, in law, employed or self-employed. Nor is the fact that she has "another job she does in the afternoons."

OP, it may be right that HMRC are unlikely to come checking on this issue, until and unless the cleaner herself takes advice on it. If she is told she could have an employment claim, she might claim employee's rights.

I’ve asked my friend who works with this sort of thing and she says everything I’ve done is legal

Unless your friend is an accountant or employment solicitor, then I'd take what she says with a pinch of salt. Contact HMRC themselves, describe the situation, and see what they have to say. There's even a bit of a self-check option on: www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

Saying that you provide the products that the cleaner uses, rather than them being brought in by the cleaner, simply adds to the argument that they may be employed by you rather than self-employed. And the cleaner having a different, second job doesn't change the situation either, as plenty of people have two employed jobs.

If this is real it's ridiculous.

30 hours a week is pretty much a full time job. You are her employer.

You're bragging about your 70 bathrooms and antiques but you won't chuck her a weeks pay for Christmas? Knowing she is desperate for the money and has no family or friends.

Sorry op but you sound like a horrible person.

I can go with 7 bathrooms. One downstairs, one upstairs and five bedrooms with en suites. Some people live in big houses, what's so unbelievable about that? I can go with 30 hours a week, too.

I wouldn't like to work for you, OP, you sound mean spirited and tight.

You should expect a few ghosts to come visiting that old house of yours this Christmas...

Am I the only person desperate to see the ops house? (misses point of thread)

I'm picturing it as a slightly spooky looking 30's house with turrets. The sort of place where an Agatha Christie film would be set.

Am I right op?

Her Christmas bonus is less than one week’s pay? Tight
Not many people get a £300 bonus, it’s not being tight.

@theWarOnPeace yessssss!! Well said

It’s not really a bonus though, is it?

It would be like my employer telling me he wasn’t paying me for the week I’m off over Christmas, but he’ll give me a bonus instead! Except the bonus is less than I’d usually earn...

You should pay her for the days on which she would usually have worked. It is only decent as you have made the choice that she isn't needed for her.

If she works for you 30 hours and doesn't have other cleaning work, you are her employer - neither of you get a choice about that. As such, you have to pay her holiday and pension.

So, get that sorted out, start by paying her Christmas holidays.

I think that you should report her to HMRC.

This is incorrect as well:

Self employed people are paid per job not per hour, if you think you have a right to offer her over time then you are a NI contribution, holiday snatching cheeky fucker.

Self-employed people can be paid any way they choose - I do some self-employed work and charge an hourly rate, it's hourly work, I don't have a 'job' to charge to my client. Tonight I have done two letters and sent them an email response to something, yesterday I took a call from one of their managers for half an hour, and on Monday I responded to a legal issue. I don't know what work will come so I can't price per 'job'. I just tell them how many hours I have done when I've done them and invoice.

The difference though is that my clients don't pay me 'overtime', I choose when I work and I tell them the rates I am charging. They don't have to use me if they don't like my rates but they don't get to tell me the rates nor to give me a different rate for some hours.

Just pay her.

I would rather be in your situation than hers. You can afford to pay her...she NEEDS the money.
You’re being unreasonable, and very tight.

tinyme, HMRC would be Justas (if not more) interested in the OP (and the lack of employer NIC being paid during this- blatantly- 'employment' relationship) than they would be in pursing the cleaner.
This whole thread stinks. OP- you sound like the worst kind of prat who cares nothing for the responsibility you have towards people in your employ. You also are not listening to the advice being given, which makes me question why you bothered posting the thread in the first place.