AIBU to not want to look after my Father in Law (FIL)?

[CarolineTheChemist]

Apologies in advance for the length of this post. I know it's really long and I'm sorry if it's rambly.
I've been skulking around the internet trying to get advice about this for a few weeks, but nothing seems to quite fit my situation. I also hope that by sharing it someone else will benefit in the future.

My AIBU dilemma is how much I'm prepared to help my in-laws, specifically my FIL, but to understand how we arrived here I need to give some history.

It all starts just over 3 years ago when my MIL left my FIL due to his controlling behaviour. To start the separation she moved out of the family home and began staying at the flat my DH (then boyfriend) and his brother were living in.

My DH (32) and BIL (36) had bought the flat together the summer before and at xmas my BIL decided he was going to move to Australia in the autumn, it was just for a year for his work. My DH then asked me to move in to replace BIL - this suited us both as we had already been discussing living together. A couple of months after we agreed this my MIL (65) left my FIL (66), it was around easter time, and started staying at the flat. Before then, she had been staying quite frequently at my BIL's invitation (it might be worth noting that he's single/divorced), but she always went home at the end of the week/weekend. My DH wasn't that keen on having her there so much, but BIL and DH never discussed it. Non-communication is a recurring theme in their family.

There are only two smallish bedrooms and a single open plan living area, so rather than sleep on the sofa my MIL alternated sharing the double bed with each son every couple of nights. During this time my DH/Boyf spent a lot of time at my shared house so that he didn't have to share a bed with his mum. During the first few months after she left, my FIL stepped up his controlling behaviour by writing horrible anonymous letters to my MIL's friends, hanging around outside the flat trying to see my MIL and leaving her abusive voicemails etc. At their parents' request, DH, BIL and their eldest brother (40) tried to mediate the separation, there were family meetings which ended in arguments, they avoided communications via solictors because of the expense. MIL often directed the brothers to take messages to FIL and fetch her items from the family home where FIL Was living, but she would not communicate with him directly. FIL is very old fashioned and believes his wife should obey him and not have friends that he hasn't chosen for her. MIL said she wants to be independent and life her life without his control. (tbh, I'm not sure she knows how to be independent, espesh after 40 years of being married to him)

After a few months things calmed down a bit, but 3 more months went by in this casual arrangement, with my MIL spending morning, noon and night watching loud trashy TV in the shared living space and getting more and more comfortable in the flat. Whenever I was at their flat whilst MIL lived there DH was very highly strung. He would not touch or hug me, would not even sit next to me on the sofa. He got very frustrated and snappy when she would not clean up properly after herself. I thought he was going to explode when he found her using metal spoons to scrape his expensive non-stick saucepans. The poor guy was very stressed :( BIL by contrast seemed to tolerate it well as MIL did all his laundry and cooking as he works long hours (he's a surgeon). On a slightly related tangent, BIL had asked DH to do some of his laundry and cooking when they first moved in together, but DH told him that categorically was not going to happen. The date that BIL was moving to Australia was fast approaching and at that point I told DH that I wasn't going to move in with him and his mother, so unless she found herself something more permanent, I needed to find a new place to live as I was scheduled to move out of my house when BIL left.

Again, no one in the family had discussed MIL's plans for the future or what was happening with the separation. All we knew is that MIL would not divorce FIL because it was shameful. She would not respond to questions about where she would be in 6/12 months, only that she wanted FIL to visit a psycologist. FIL did oblige, but didn't like psycotherapy so only attended a few sessions. As the move out date approached, both BILs started applying pressure to DH that MIL should move in permanently and take BIL's room until MIL and FIL had sorted things out. He said no, I don't want to live with my mother, I want to live with my girlfriend, just as BIL gets to move to Australia as he wishes and other BIL gets to live with his wife and 2 children.
Both BILs applied some more pressure (MIL was silent) but stopped when DH pointed out that MIL couldn't afford to pay half the mortgage, and neither BIL wanted to have to pay this for her. It might also be worth noting that during the separation eldest BIL didn't have his mother to stay for even a single night.

DH then asked his MIL to start making plans for a permanent place to stay because she couldn't stay at the flat after BIL had left. MIL didn't take it well and cried a lot. BIL laid into DH saying what a disgrace he was and how disgusted he was with DH's selfish behaviour. BIL said that if he was DH, he would have taken out a loan to pay the mortgage if that's what it would have taken to have MIL stay there. BIL isn't great with money and already owed DH money for shared bills that he had not paid. DH felt guilty about asking her to leave, but feels it was a reasonable thing to do.
MIL and FIL also own a house abroad, so DH suggested MIL go there until she had decided what to do with herself. She did this for a few weeks, admittedly this was a bad idea as FIL found out and followed her there and began harassing her again. She then went to Australia to stay with BIL for a few weeks, then came back and stayed in various friends' spare rooms for another 5 months. She occasionally came to stay with us at the weekend, sometimes because her friends had asked her to give them some space. When she was with us she used to make comments about how her friends would wait on her, bring her doughnuts, tea, cakes and biscuits etc. Things that we did not do when she was staying with us - we don't keep these things in our home and neither should she because she has type II diabetes! Winter came and went and in the spring, she started proceedings for a non-molestation order against FIL, after this was granted she got a 6 month occupation order for the house. A year after she had left him, she moved back into the family home and FIL moved into a bedsit in a nearby town.

Fast forward 2 years, this is how they have been ever since. DH and I got married a year after I moved in, we didn't invite any of his family or mine, we just had one witness each. Partly because we're saving money for a house deposit, and partly because we knew his MIL and FIL would argue if they both attended. It was easier to not invite anyone than have to pick favourites and/or deal with all their bullsh*t.

DH didn't see his father for the best part of a year, he was ashamed and disappointed at how he had behaved, but felt sorry for FIL as he was alone and had lost many friends and family as a result of this separation. FIL lives in a single room in a mouldy old house. He could afford to live somewhere nicer, but chooses not to. We think it's because he likes the company of his housemates. MIL and FIL have a lot of debt so FIL keeps his money in cash so that their creditors are not aware of it.

MIL still refuses to communicate with FIL and FIL has asked (via the sons) for her to sell both houses and split the assets so he can move on. She doesn't want to because she likes that house (4-bed detached house) and wants to stay living there. The last time FIL asked for this was a few months ago. As far as we know MIL has still not responded to this request.

MIL and BIL are still very close although BIL has a girlfriend now (25). BIL often pays for MIL to do and have nice things, like getting taxis instead of using her bus pass. MIL is living off a state pension, so isn't very wealthy and is still paying down the debts that she shares with FIL. DH has offered her money for practical things like roof repairs and a cleaner, but she would prefer him to pay for her holidays like BIL does and has asked for money for this. She explained that BIL bought the flights for a holiday to India, so perhaps DH could pay for the accomodation and other BIL for spending money. We haven't been on holiday nor had a honeymoon as we're still saving for a house deposit.

If you're still reading now then bravo, cos this is where it gets to the sticky AIBU....

Recently, FIL has been very ill and was diagnosed with cancer a few weeks ago. They think it's operable and hopefully will lead to a good prognosis without the need for chemotherapy. DH and the other brothers are upset that their father is ill and living in a horrible room.

Although the occupation order has long sinced expired, MIL will not have him back in the family house, nor will she sell it or the other house, nor do an equity release. She has said that if one of the sons moves back into the family house then FIL can stay there whilst he is ill. MIL suggested that if one of the brothers will not move back in and be there 24hrs a day (nevermind that they all have jobs), they should get FIL a live-in carer instead. This costs around £1000 per week. BIL agreed to this, but DH and eldest BIL think this is a ludicrous expense. When they pushed back, MIL sent them all a long message saying how they owed MIL and FIL to pay for this because they spent money on bringing them up as kids, clothing and feeding them. How she was ashamed by how heartless they were, and how they should not expect FIL to pay any of his savings towards this 24hr carer if they truly cared about him. She repeated all the stuff BIL had said about DH's behaviour when he asked her to move out of the flat. When I read it I was so angry, who has children with the expectation that they will "pay them back" when they get old. Eldest BIL and DH refused further and said that this was an attempt to guilt trip them into doing what she wanted and it wouldn't work. FIL doesn't actually need a 24hr carer, but MIL wants one as she does not want to be alone with FIL.

Unfortunately, BIL had already told FIL he was allowed back in the house, but since DH and eldest BIL refused to pay for a live in carer, he can't. FIL is angry with MIL and has responded by telling his brother (uncle in law/UIL) to permanently move into MIL and FIL's house abroad and threatening to disinherit MIL from everything and anything. He called DH and told him to arrange for a solicitor to draw up FIL's will removing MIL from inheriting anything if he dies. DH refused as he didn't feel comfortable doing this to his mother, especially as she would still be left with their joint debts. Needless to say, my FIL's behaviour still isn't great. I can see why MIL does not want to live with him.

Despite all this crap, DH has asked if his father could come to stay with us whilst he is recovering from surgery. This could be a week, this could be 2 weeks, it could be longer. It would depend on how ill he is and how guilty DH would feel about asking him to leave. We have a small 2 bed flat, one bedroom is ours and the other is a dressing room with a mattress on the floor for the occasional guest. This is where we would sleep if FIL moved in. I work very close to home and often arrive back 2/3 hours before DH does. DH has just stared a company and is working long hours to get things off the ground. As a consequence I often do the vast majority of the cooking and grocery shopping. Also, my husband doesn't drive, so if FIL needed taking anywhere that would fall to me too.

AIBU to say that I do not want my FIL to stay with us? I understand that he's ill, but my MIL and FIL have created this shitty mess and have had years to sort this out, but haven't. As a consequence this is creating arguments between me and my husband. I love him and clearly want to support him whilst his Dad is ill, but I have to draw the line somewhere. We've only been married a year ffs, still haven't bought our first house. DH's family walk all over him like a mat and he feels guilty if he doesn't do their bidding. He says he likes it when I force him to stand up for himself to them (i.e. not agreeing to pay for a 24hr carer or his mother's holiday wishes), but where do I draw the line on a man with cancer?

I knew his family were crazy before I married him, but he's such a lovely guy. He has a heart of gold, he's a great friend, but they totally take take advantage of him. ARRRGGGGGHHH How did I end up with these crazy people in my life?!?!??!!?!??!!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

Thanks for reading this. All opinions/comments/suggestions welcomed :)

No no no.
They are adults. They are not that old.
They must sell the joint assets and go their separate ways. There is no shame in divorce these days - nobody really is bothered.
Please don't agree to this.

It's unreasonable to tell MIL she has to live with a man who was so incredibly abusive for such a sustained period of time. Agreed. It isn't however unreasonable to tell MIL and FIL that they need to come to an agreement themselves about splitting their assets, or to expect MIL to move somewhere smaller so that the equity can be divided (and to make her living expenses more affordable)

Is this MIL being deliberately awkward about selling the house(es!!!) as a way of controlling him?

FIL owns a house that he is legally entitled to live in. MIL can't stop him. But she also can't be forced to care for him while he recovers.

No easy answer but I would only let him stay if a rota was put in place for the brothers to come and look after him. DH and bil could each take a week off work.

OH WOW! I am so overwhelmed by the number of people who have responded so far.

Thanks so much to each of you who has read it and replied. I really appreciate it. I will share this with DH and hopefully your responses will reassure him too.

To those who asked, yes MIL and FIL both legally co-own the house. We have been wondering why FIL didn't force the sale already, or why neither has shown any real intention to change their situation over the last couple of years. MIL has refused the suggestion she goes to the house abroad whilst he recovers because she might not be able to get back into the UK house when she comes back.

I have already told DH that if either of them was to move into our place I would move out immediately and not come back until they were gone. It feels harsh to abandon him like that, but I'm done with the in-laws' inability to be adult spilling over into our lives.

I also said that I don't even want to spend time with either of them for the foreseeable future because I will not be able to hold my tongue. I'm livid with MIL for that outrageous guilt trip message about the sons owe them money bringing them up, and I'm livid with FIL for refusing to see how his dreadful behaviour is the reason he's not allowed in his house.

Luckily, I don't feel like FIL is a threat to me as he seems to keep his worst behaviour for his immediate family. Also if he tried it, he'd find out very quickly how I won't take any of his sh*t.

Sounds to me like you would be doing your DH a massive favour by helping him stand up to them, stick to your guns OP. I also think it's a very valid point that MIL refuses to be alone with him because he's abusive and yet everyone expects you to put yourself at risk, that's really not on.

I think it's time to put a stop to all the to-ing and fro-ing now, say a firm no, to DH and everyone else, and remove yourself (and DH in effect) as an option completely. You will need a standard response to any attempts at guilting or persuasion, a stock phrase they will hopefully get sick enough of hearing that they stop asking, MN is usually pretty good for ideas on what to say

Protect yourself, and DH, as much as you possibly can from this mess though, it's of their (MIL and FIL) own making and not anyone else's job to sort out. They sound toxic as hell, don't allow yourselves to be sucked in any further

No. Just no. From what you have said FIl has cancer but a good prognosis.

This should be a wake up call to both MIL & FIL to sort their finances. He should prioritise a decent home (that doesn't have to mean large) & she should stop thinking they can own a 4 bed house & a property abroad but cadge off others all the time.

Do not allow him to move in - he will ever leave and it will disrupt your life beyond belief while other people attempt to minimise the impact without ever volunteering to take over the care themselves.

Your FIL was correct in that both properties should have been sold to allow both FIL & MIL to buy a small self-container property each that they could financially manage.
The trouble is, (if I read correctly) he only suggested that when he became homeless, not when it was his ex-wife who was homeless.

Nevertheless, I think all three brothers should push for that, as a full and final solution. Given that both parents seem to require their sons' input (either as financial support or practical help) in order to manage, I think the three brother's are in a very good position to insist that this is done, or support will be withdrawn.

If all the parental assets were sold and the parents were set up in permanent separate manageable living situations, this would give both parents much less scope for all this emotional blackmail in the future.

I realise that may not happen in time for FIL's operation, so perhaps the three brothers could take turns of staying with him in the (previously) marital home.

(Am amazed that either your DH or his brother thought that taking turns of having their mother sharing their beds was an acceptable temporary solution, at the outset!!!)

YANBU to say no to having a man stay in your home who's behaviour has been considered risky enough by the courts towards your MIL to warrant non-mol.
You MIL is NBU to say no to being the carer for her abuser.

Your dh works long hours and is starting a business. You will be the one doing everything for FIL and once he’s in he won’t leave. And how will you ask him to leave if his prognosis isn’t positive?

I wouldn’t do it. I’ve lived with two relatives who had similar diagnosis and the amount of work it generated for everyone in the family was tremendous and if you haven’t got that point of love and affection for that person to start with it’s even harder to bear.

I wouldn’t do it. You FIL needs to work out his own living arrangements he has the cash. Perhaps if BIL feels so much for him being supported by family FIL can move to Australia and live with him

No don’t you’ll still have him there in 6 months. I appreciate how your dh feels as it is his dd, but he needs to put you first, considering his father dug himself into this hole. This is not a mess for you to clear up.

I would never have married into this message, it's been years in the making and they're never going to change. It's too late now but as this message is impacting you, I'm sorry but I'd be stepping well back and letting my husband deal with it all, it's absolutely toxic to your relationship that you're having to even deal with this crap, absolutely ridiculous.

More practically, I'd be making joint plans with DH to extricate myself from involvement financially, emotionally and physically, moving away and cutting losses if need be + without him if he wasn't on board. Life is for living, not having how you live entirely beholden to in laws you didn't choose to marry!

Message?! Mess!

Sorry if this comes out wrong, I mean no offence to anyone. Does your husband come from a family who’s culture considers the family to look after their elders?

I'm sorry ,but it's a no from me.in fact I wouldn't be with someone this tangled up in their parents mess..if your dh can't stand up to them now,he never will.dont have kids while things are like this

It is time for pil to legally split their marriage and assets. Two houses means one house each. They either sell both and buy a new one each. Or have one of the existing ones each. They can divorce. Plenty of people of all religions and backgrounds do. 24 hour care isn’t necessary. At all. If it is then as a medical professional bil can come back from Australia to provide it can’t he.

Why hasn't FiL forced a sale and divorced or legally separated.?

Absolutely do not have him staying with you, like your Mil he will get far too comfortable and your be unable to get him out.

What about him going into a convalescence home like my Mil did after she had her operation and there was no one to take care of her all day, I’m not sure of the cost now but it might help if you could all contribute to his stay there until he’s better.

it's about time the ils grew up, and your dh developed a back bone tbh.
This is not a normal life and if fil moved in I'd be moving out.
I bet he'll try and say you will be his carer, is dh taking time off work to care for his father?

OP you know the answer - keep the whole family at arm’s length from here on. Do not allow your relationship to be tainted with this highly dysfunctional set-up. Your DH sounds like a lovey man and he will no doubt do the right thing and stand up for his marriage by saying ‘No’. Be honest with them if necessary- they are adults and they need to be held accountable for the impact of their behaviour not only on each other but also on the wider family. Don’t apologise and don’t waver. Good luck

The only thing I can suggest is that MIL goes to house abroad "for the duration" (I can understand why she doesn't want FIL in the same house as her although to be honest, your MIL and FIL sound as bad as each other!). FIL moves into family house. UIL can sod off back to his own house.

This would seem to be the sanest solution, with each Brother taking in turns (a week each) to look after FiL while he's there.

That your lovely DH's Bros are leaving him with this problem, is beyond shitty. Otherwise your DH needs to march both of his parents to a solicitor to draw up a split in finances, houses etc.

I also agree that its been long enough and both Fil and Mil need to divorce as this situation is no good for anyone, and everyone around them know that they hate each other so why keep up with this charade of being married.

A clean break is what is needed, if they don’t agree say you will not get involved in there petty squabbles and sort it out yourself your not interested.

Caroline, hope you don't mind me asking but are your DH's family Asian? It would explain a lot of the dynamics if they are (bitter experience here!).

The only sensible way out is to sell property and FIL and MIL each get their own place. And for your DH to stop feeling guilty.

loubluee - yes he does come from a culture where this is more expected of the children. Well detected! Whilst I try to be sympathetic to this, I'm wary of people using this as an excuse or validation for why they behave in an unreasonable way. I'm fairly sure that "culture" is used as an excuse for many bad behaviours... FGM is an extreme example of that.

I agree that MIL shouldn't have to live with FIL. The courts granted her that non-molestation order with good reason. For some reason now he has cancer, the sons seem to have hazy memories of this happening. However, I do think she should "shit or get off the pot" as someone put it. That made me chuckle I'll add it to my arsenal for my imaginary conversations with her.

Also, I found it very weird that she shared a bed with her two 33 and 36 yr old sons for months and months. DH shrugged it off at the time, but it was weird getting into his bed and finding her nightie under the pillow...

Annoyingly the three bothers are not in agreement over how to tackle this. I think they're all at different stages in the guilt/co-dependency process. DH has been helped to step back by me, but when we refuse to help MIL and DIL, I still feel for the other BILs because they have to deal with it alone. Especially eldest BIL, although he didn't take MIL when she first moved out (I think his wife said she would divorce him - don't blame her), he has been the primary go-between for them both since this started. I wish he would just stop getting involved and let them wallow in their own shit. I daresay guilt is driving him too.