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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel pushed to the edge of my limits by our four year old

43 replies

Waffles80 · 14/12/2018 19:36

Four year old DD - a twin - started school in September. She’s found it hard - she’s always been a little emotional but a very kind child. She would be the first to offer something to us / another child.

She is imaginative, loving and fun. Sometimes she would be stroppy; she did have a bad habit of biting us / her twin when frustrated. She has really good language skills and can talk for England. I’m sure she’s neuro-typical, but events lately are making me question whether there’s something “up” with her.

Since starting school in September she’s really changed. She’s so angry, and lashes out at me / DH and her twin (they’re identical) at the slightest provocation. She’s constantly shouting and screaming at us, and will lie ob the floor kicking and screaming if she doesn’t get her own way.

She’s hitting me and even spat at me the other day. She will tell us she feels angry and frustrated. She will argue about everything - getting dressed, doing teeth, eating dinner, which side of the car she gets to sit on. Will lose it when told “no” about things - not being allowed chocolate (not “ever” but just when she’s told no), not being allowed to watch TV before bed, being told it’s too late for craft for example.

We do LOADS with them - busy but child-focussed weekends, visiting their friends, out at the park/ woods/ beach. All our activities are focussed on them at the weekend; they get so many opportunities for activity and play. They don’t have screens but sometimes play games on our phones.

I know they’re both tired - it’s really hard to get them both to bed. Often not asleep till 8.30. We normally have dinner at 5.30/6.00 and have time to read, play, do some drawing or colouring in. We

They do go to breakfast club x3 per wk, and after school club x3 per wk. I’m a teacher, DH runs a small business.

My job is super stressful; I work in a really challenging school and behaviour is awful. Some pupils do treat staff badly - I end up dealing with it for my team and have frequent challenging conversations with pupils / parents.

Then, at home, I face a regular barrage of anger from my child. She’s started saying she will “smack me in the face” when she’s challenged; I think this is stuff she’s heard at school because she’s never, ever heard that at home. We don’t smack our children, but I have had to move her away from me when she’s hit or bitten me.

Anyway, this is really long, I appreciate. But I’m so so miserable and so lost. My parents are really involved with our lives and SO supportive, they’re brilliant grandparents and they say we’re brilliant parents but I just don’t know what has gone wrong that my child is just so angry. I’m fed up. It’s putting such a strain on our marriage and making me want to quit my job / leave home.

OP posts:
Greensleeves · 14/12/2018 19:55

My eldest went through a very similar phase when he started school - belligerent, unpredictable, intolerant. I had bite marks all over my arms. I think it was caused by the level of effort he was making to be "good" and conform to a whole new set of rules and expectations in school - I've heard many other parents say the same, that the child seems to cope well with school, but behaviour at school has gone to hell.

In our case ds1 has ASD, which definitely contributed to the strain of maintaining his behaviour at school all day and caused the meltdowns at home, but I think the principle applies to any child, particularly one with high intelligence and a strong will. DS1 did settle down after about a term, once school routines and expectations were a bit more ingrained and he found his equilibrium.

For us, this was also the stage at which fears and anxieties about death and God and all sort of other giant concepts started to surface - for a bright four year old whose world has suddenly expanded massively, it can all be a bit overwhelming, and despite having excellent language skills, like your child, it spilled over into tantrums and biting sometimes. We just stayed calm and firm, sat him on the stairs for four minutes when he really crossed the line, but tried to make lots of time to cuddle him and talk to him and open up a dialogue about what was going on in his head when he wasn't screaming at us. Lots of deep breaths and remember that it will pass!

JudasPrudy · 14/12/2018 20:03

She sounds a bit overwhelmed, bless her. I'd be interested to see how she behaves over Christmas. Maybe a bit more downtime would be good for her? And some time 1-1 with you would be a good idea. Something like baking at home together - give her time to open up to you and talk through the things that are stressing her out.

Waffles80 · 14/12/2018 20:03

I really, really appreciate your response Greensleeves. Thank you for taking the time to reply, and thank you for the ideas on strategies.

We’re defiitely losing our tempers with her more and raising our voices. I hope the Christmas break will give us some time to reset.

OP posts:
Waffles80 · 14/12/2018 20:06

Thank you also JudasPrudy. This weekend we will do something one-to-one with each child. We actually did this last weekend and DT1 (the one who is struggling ATM) kept saying she missed her sister!

OP posts:
Wasywasydoodah · 14/12/2018 20:08

It’s such a tough time for reception age children. End of a long term, tiredness, Christmas disruptions make it really hard. She how jan and feb go, see if she settles down after the break. Hopefully she will.

Greensleeves · 14/12/2018 20:08

You're human beings, it's not the end of the world if you snap at her sometimes! Personally I think in the context of a loving relationship it doesn't harm a child to see that parents are people too, they can snap and then apologise, just as children can.

She sounds like a great little character, I hope things settle down for you soon Flowers

Louiselouie0890 · 14/12/2018 20:08

Have you tried slowing down? I don't mean that patronising. Does she have time to herself? Time to just relax? Or does this make her worse?

Neverunderfed · 14/12/2018 20:09

My eldest was the same when she started. And tbh, it's because she wasn't ready. She used all get emotional reserves getting through the day and had none left when she got home. Everything tipped her over the edge. It isn't an option for everyone but we withdrew her and she was home educated until this September, when she went back into year 4 at 8.

Bumbalaya · 14/12/2018 20:11

It sounds like she may have very high levels of anxiety and you are bearing the brunt of it.
Have you read up on Pathological Demand Avoidance? It's a type of autism and it might be a releif/ of interest for you to read up on.
Flowers

madmum5811 · 14/12/2018 20:14

Breakfast and after school club 3x a week. It is an awfully long day for her then. As others say see how she goes in the xmas holidays.

Bed at 7pm I would say is a must.

So much to do at weekends, let them slob out a bit.

You can be overstimulated as a small child imo.

IgglePiggleWiggle · 14/12/2018 20:14

I think the first place to start is to tackle the late bedtime. She might need way less stimulation after dinner. I'd try a very simple and always predictable routine after dinner that doesn't involve crafts etc. Dinner/bath/stories/bed. She sounds completely over stimulated. She might need more downtime during the weekends too. What you think of as an opportunity might be just another challenge for her. Try backing off doing so much.

SilverDoe · 14/12/2018 20:15

Awh, this sounds really hard OP :( sorry I don’t have any advice as my children aren’t aged yet, she does sound stressed bless her but it sounds like you re handling it well. How is the other twin getting on in school? Hope you get some more helpful advice soon Flowers

SilverDoe · 14/12/2018 20:19

Sorry the only thing I did have to offer is I agree that she sounds very busy. We are kind of made to feel as parents that we’re not doing a great job unless our kids are occupied all the time with stimulating activities, socialising and days out but honestly at a small age it’s way too much for them. She will have a lot to deal with at school so maybe cutting back on what she does at home and letting her have a relaxing Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon may help a bit.

kitkatsky · 14/12/2018 20:27

Honestly... it's the time of year. My dd is 7 and always a bloody nightmare during December. Too much for them to do any too much excitement. Don't worry until it this continues after the holiday. Then revisit, but I'm 90% sure you won't neee to

IncomingCannonFire · 14/12/2018 20:31

My 4yo is the same. He's belligerent, argumentative and pushing back on everything. I've implemented a token jar reward system for good behavior. Dh is being a bit harder and sending him to the calm down step and bed if he's really bad. He's been pushing and tripping his little brother deliberately. Other times he's his lovely old self.
He's very tired from school.
Last year he was the same at nursery at this time of the year and settled down again after Christmas.
He's also asking a lot of big questions about dying, etc and become scared of the dark, monsters and being alone amongst other things.
It's really hard work but I'm hoping it passes soon.
I've found I can distract him sometimes by offering him a task. He seems really keen to help. Most times he needs a bit of down time after school.

Escolar · 14/12/2018 20:34

I agree with other posters - it does all sound quite full on. Maybe give her a bit more time just to chill out?

Believeitornot · 14/12/2018 20:37

My dd went through similar when she started school. She was just incredibly exhausted and overwhelmed.

We got stricter with bedtimes (8.30 would be way too late, sometimes it needed to be 6.30. Which was hard as I got in at 6pm earliest and had a stressful job!) and we had very boring weekends. Just bummed around.

She got better in the spring/summer.

Bumpsadaisie · 14/12/2018 20:39

I guess what struck me is the doing loads at the weekend and the 8.30 bedtime.

My two are much older (9 and 7, so yr 5 and yr2). My 7 year old has story at 7.45 and light out at 8. My 9 year old is in bed by 8.15 then reads till 8.30 when I tuck her in.

Even so they are really tired by this point in the term. And that is even with not really doing any activities at the weekend.

It did strike me that your 4 yr old might be feeling overwhelmed.

Lollyice · 14/12/2018 20:42

Ds is 3.5 and has become increasingly difficult to get to nursery. He goes to breakfast and after school club twice a week and refuses to get dressed, throws himself around, hits, bites and kicks me.
I know he's little and nursery has been a massive shock so I try to take a deep breath and get on with it but it's hard.
In the last week I've been getting up half an hour earlier to get a shower and dressed. When he decides he wants to play a game or write his Christmas cards I've had 10 minutes to sit and do it and things were less stressful until this morning
I'm hoping the Christmas break will change my ds's behaviour, I hope it will for you too.

Waffles80 · 14/12/2018 20:46

DT1 was really unsettled by starting school, cried a few times, and often tells us she doesn’t like school before going. DT2 is so much more settled - she sometimes snaps and tantrums but about three times a week.

We’ve cancelled breakfast club after Christmas and DH is going to work later.

If we spend time at home, they end up driving each other / us crackers. They will play / bake / do craft for a while but then lose it so we aim to go out early-ish most weekends. Will try to slob out on Sunday!

How have people managed to get children to bed earlier? We do a pretty regular routine of bath / stories / bed (and often a snack of crackers / milk) but they both get engaged in really engrossing imaginative play so they just end up really excited! It’s like having a friend to play at bedtime.

We stay with them in their room until they’re asleep, reading to them / telling stories from our heads. If we leave them they get upset or just play wildly and mess about!

We can’t separate them at the moment into different rooms as we only have two bedrooms - if we put one in our room, the other sees that as really unfair - and a box room set up as an office. We are moving to a house with a fourth room in the new year so could try to separate them both then!

OP posts:
Waffles80 · 14/12/2018 20:47

Also - just to say again how grateful I am for the replies. I’m really, really thankful that you’ve taken time to respond with advice, ideas and your own experiences. I’ve been touched and tearful reading. Thank you!

OP posts:
JudasPrudy · 14/12/2018 20:47

'Thank you also JudasPrudy. This weekend we will do something one-to-one with each child. We actually did this last weekend and DT1 (the one who is struggling ATM) kept saying she missed her sister!'

You're welcome. Sometimes it takes an outsiders point of view to get you started thinking down different lines until you finally hit on what exactly the problem is. DT1 sounds very attached to her sister which could actually be stressful for DT2.

TeaAndNoSympathy · 14/12/2018 20:53

Oh poor you. I do sympathise. I remember my DD2 going through a similar phase when she first started Reception. It was truly awful. She would have full on toddler-style tamrums (lying on the floor kicking and screaming) sometimes for over an hour at a time.

I think she was overwhelmed by school TBH and tired too. I’m a single parent and I work full time. I had no choice but to drop her off at breakfast club at 7.45 each morning. A childminder collected her in the afternoon though. I got through it by being really strict on early bedtimes and by enforcing firm boundaries and allowing lots of chill out time at weekend. It passed thankfully. She’s now in Yr 2 and delightful (most of the time!)

formerbabe · 14/12/2018 20:54

She sounds really tired to me. My dds behaviour really deteriorates when she's tired. She's 8 but we aim for bed between 7-7.30 on a school night. 8.30 seems very late for a four year old. We never eat as a family on a school night...my DC eat their dinner at 4.30. I appreciate it's tricky if your DC are in childcare after school. We also have quite chilled out weekends...I think it's really important for them to have downtime. My DD loves a pyjama day at the weekend and pretty much just plays with her Lego and watches TV and chills out!

Tertiathethird · 14/12/2018 20:55

I haven’t got any solutions for you but I’m afraid that what stands out for me is the breakfast club and after school club.

My reception aged children couldn’t cope with that. The school day is long enough.

I think she might just be under stain and over tired. Too many demands.

Can you make alternative childcare arrangements until she is older and has better stamina?

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