To feel pushed to the edge of my limits by our four year old

[Waffles80]

Four year old DD - a twin - started school in September. She’s found it hard - she’s always been a little emotional but a very kind child. She would be the first to offer something to us / another child.

She is imaginative, loving and fun. Sometimes she would be stroppy; she did have a bad habit of biting us / her twin when frustrated. She has really good language skills and can talk for England. I’m sure she’s neuro-typical, but events lately are making me question whether there’s something “up” with her.

Since starting school in September she’s really changed. She’s so angry, and lashes out at me / DH and her twin (they’re identical) at the slightest provocation. She’s constantly shouting and screaming at us, and will lie ob the floor kicking and screaming if she doesn’t get her own way.

She’s hitting me and even spat at me the other day. She will tell us she feels angry and frustrated. She will argue about everything - getting dressed, doing teeth, eating dinner, which side of the car she gets to sit on. Will lose it when told “no” about things - not being allowed chocolate (not “ever” but just when she’s told no), not being allowed to watch TV before bed, being told it’s too late for craft for example.

We do LOADS with them - busy but child-focussed weekends, visiting their friends, out at the park/ woods/ beach. All our activities are focussed on them at the weekend; they get so many opportunities for activity and play. They don’t have screens but sometimes play games on our phones.

I know they’re both tired - it’s really hard to get them both to bed. Often not asleep till 8.30. We normally have dinner at 5.30/6.00 and have time to read, play, do some drawing or colouring in. We

They do go to breakfast club x3 per wk, and after school club x3 per wk. I’m a teacher, DH runs a small business.

My job is super stressful; I work in a really challenging school and behaviour is awful. Some pupils do treat staff badly - I end up dealing with it for my team and have frequent challenging conversations with pupils / parents.

Then, at home, I face a regular barrage of anger from my child. She’s started saying she will “smack me in the face” when she’s challenged; I think this is stuff she’s heard at school because she’s never, ever heard that at home. We don’t smack our children, but I have had to move her away from me when she’s hit or bitten me.

Anyway, this is really long, I appreciate. But I’m so so miserable and so lost. My parents are really involved with our lives and SO supportive, they’re brilliant grandparents and they say we’re brilliant parents but I just don’t know what has gone wrong that my child is just so angry. I’m fed up. It’s putting such a strain on our marriage and making me want to quit my job / leave home.

Both of my DDs listen to guided meditations to get to sleep. There are loads on YouTube (I use an old phone and put it on a high shelf).

I know it is easier said than done but I would try as first line of defence an earlier bedtime. We would have had 7pm at that stage... good luck! It is so hard when they just don’t make it easy for you!!!

Just to add, even my 7 year old doesn’t want to do after school clubs or play dates. She just wants to come home and have some time on her own quietly in her room. And she was very difficult when she was Reception aged - like yours. She found school exhausting and still does!

How have people managed to get children to bed earlier? We do a pretty regular routine of bath / stories / bed (and often a snack of crackers / milk) but they both get engaged in really engrossing imaginative play so they just end up really excited!

My dcs share a room. If we left them then yes they’d play and piss about.

We turn lights off and put an audio story on then switch the relaxing meditation stories which they know mean it’s time to sleep. Regardless of how much fun they’re having

When my daughter started Reception, she often needed to be in bed by 6:30, 7pm at the absolute latest. I'd give it a go of bringing bedtime earlier. It's hard working and not having much time with them in the evenings but it could make the time you do have with them. Plus I found she really needs lazy downtime so I often only plan activities on one day at the weekend and the other is reading/Tv/colouring otherwise she's too overstimulated. It's a fine balance of feeling guilty that you don't do enough with them and not overdoing it xx

I also agree that 830 is too late. How is she in the morning? Mine are 8 and 6 now and are in bed by 8 at the latest.

Hi op, sounds similar to my 4yo who started preschool in Sept (moved her from nursery). A lot of the stuff with her was emotional rather than physical. But bad to the point of her grandparents refused to have her anymore, they were doing some pick ups. Her sleep went out of the window, and over-tiredness played a big part in her behaviour spiralling. She was often up for 2hrs solid during the night and up at 5. Things that helped were putting her to bed earlier, aiming for 6pm to make 12hrs sleep at least a possibility. This meant being super organised, dinner ready to go when we got in so slow cooker etc, bath straight after and books in her room. No real time for messing. We used tokens to help at night, it might be with looking at whether this approach would help at bedtime, you can look it up think they're called bedtime tokens in some articles. Then with her behaviour I read a book called 'how to talk so little kids will listen'. It was really really helpful. A bit American, but worth putting up with that. I got so many tips that have really helped my Dd, and me!

I love Sunday mornings, two little pairs of feet running in, hopping into bed to snuggle up and watch a bit of tv. Unless they have to go out, pyjamas, slippers and let them relax. We all need me time, whatever our age. They grow so quickly.

It is surprising how different twins can be. One is independent the other more cuddly cries more easily and is deffo. more emotional.

Again, when mine was in reception - 7pm at the latest for bed. He was shattered. I can judge it pretty well even now I can tell when he needs an early night. I find a bath wakes him back up, so we have massive cuddles, songs and a story. At one point he was struggling to sleep so I put on meditation music (pan pipes over sea sounds with whales calling-so 90's!!). He has just moved schools due to my job, and has really struggled this term. I was called in to discuss whether it was ADD or some other such label. I actually asked them if they had asked him how he was. He wasn't OK and they hadn't noticed. They started to give him encouragement and a sticker, the odd mention for trying hard and he's like a different boy. Children settle differently. She may see her twin settling well and being with other people and is wondering why she isn't and then she could be acting out on it. Ask her and then ask the school. But cuddles and a conversation may well help too. Good luck. xx

We do a pretty regular routine of bath / stories / bed (and often a snack of crackers / milk) but they both get engaged in really engrossing imaginative play so they just end up really excited! It’s like having a friend to play at bedtime

I would sort this out & knock any fun on the head.

You finish dinner at 6pm then they have snacks & games.

6pm finish dinner. Straight up bath or wash. PJs on, in bed by 6.45pm, asleep by 7pm.

I HAVE to do this for my DD else she is hell on earth in the morning & evening. She is a totally different child on 12 hours sleep. She is nearly 6.

I dont even read her a story. Theres no nonsense & she does not have a bath every night.

I tend to do a bath Sunday late morning & play in the bath. The rest of the time it is a very quick rinse/wash in the shower. 5 minutes at the most.

She is at school by 8.15, so has to be asleep by 7-7.15.

You're bringing back memories of DS1's yR (when I was teaching FT). He was struggling with a lack of down time. (Still does!)

End-of-term-itus is probably affecting you both. DS is now y3 and can struggle with his moods anyway, but it often escalates the last few weeks of term. The penultimate week is often worst, and eases slightly when the end is finally in sight.

Some quality screen time could be a good thing to introduce as a way to relax and chill out. Cbeebies content is good and subtly educational. You can play it from iPlayer or the kids iPlayer apps. Too much time being passive obviously had its problems, but equally being constantly stimulated means she's not learning to unwind or given chance to subconciously process the events of the day.

I'd keep the weekends quieter with more time to do their own thing around the house.

Just to counter all these tales of super early bedtimes _ I have a four year old and she is never asleep before half 8 ..I'm very surprised at children being asleep at seven .
Anyway I actually agree here that your daughter sounds exhausted.;I know it's harsh to say it but I feel that reception plus after school club is not ideal.

My daughter is zonked when I collect her at 315 and she is a v energetic child. It's so full on for them with no real downtime and then to go into another similar setting ...it's so much for their little minds to process

Could you find a childminder

I'd rework your bedtime. You in there until they fall asleep is madness especially if you're telling interesting stories the whole time. If you need to be in there I'd be totally silent and put on a guided meditation that lasts no longer than 20 minutes. I'd then do the disappearing chair thing of moving closer to the door. Eventually try a reward chart for going to sleep alone without you but also with sanctions for messing about. I'd really try to crack it over the holidays.

I understand this. DD is an epic rule follower and very black and white. Fairly easy to parent just some annoying phases that come and go that needed tackling.

She started school, I would pick her up.... she would walk from her classroom to the school gates like an angel. Then I'd get her towards the car, perhaps ask how her day was and she'd scowl, refuse to talk to me, tell me she didn't like me etc etc. This continued to escalate with massive screaming fits if she didn't get her own way. Fits of rage at bedtime.

After a few explosive reactions from me as I simply wasn't prepared and felt powerless to handle this new behaviour, I got my shit together and tried to remind myself constantly that this too shall pass. It's literally the pressure of adhering to rules all day at school and then home being a safe place to release everything and wanting control.

We ignore a lot and when the screaming starts she's put at the bottom of the stairs and told to let us know when she's calmed down. She gets apoplectic then gradually burns it off and we can carry on again. If she leaves the stairs she's returned to them without a word or looking at her. Luckily only lasted a few weeks.

Have DD's been put in the same classes or diffrent one's? It may be that she is struggling with the sepreation of her twin. She is used to her twin always being there and that transition is not easy for a young child It can cause them alot of upset or distress.

Essentially they are struggling all day to behave and to work out all the complex social rules of school.
It's natural they come out of school and it collapses for them a bit.

I'm going against the grain here but I think special bedtime creative play with her sister sounds lovely and I wouldn't be too harsh with bedtime. My daughter is like that and needs that creative playtime to unwind ...

They’re in the same class - our request and what was felt to be right by their brilliant nursery staff. DT2 loves her sister but isn’t held back by her. They’ve always played independently with others and according to their teacher they continue to do so.

DH and I are going to really work on bedtimes during the holidays. The advice here has been so useful.

Their play can be adorable and fascinating to watch. They re-enact their day, pretending to be people from school. We’ve had weeks of one being the teacher and the other being the children in the school play. They can be very grown up in their mannerisms and the way they impersonate adults they know. It can be utterly impossible to get them to switch out of play mode and into bedtime mode, and then, when one is in bedtime mode, a bit of silliness from the other immediately livens them both up again.

They can also wrestle / play fight / jump on each other which is why we have to be there to supervise them. It literally ends in tears because one will always take it too far!