AIBU in expecting the school to do something more?

[Frustratedandannoyed101]

SEN child has been being physically violent and verbally aggressive to my child (and others in the class) and school don't seem to be doing anything at all.

They are making all the right noises, but this has been going on for over a year now and has really ramped up over the last few months. My child is still reporting something almost everyday, from being called ugly and stupid, to having those things screamed in their face, to being chased around the playground and attacked.

The kids were originally friends but the aggression started when the other child got very possessive over mine. My child eventually came to me in tears saying she hadn't been able to play with anyone else for weeks.

This was last year. School kept them apart in class to encourage less reliance on the friendship and give my child a break but to allow friendship to continue.

For one reason or another, this has stopped working. My child is now being sought out and the attacks have escalated. Other children are also being attacked but not to the same degree - the class have normalised this behaviour to a certain degree.

Teachers don't seem to know what to do - the kids are told to stay away from each other but my child is followed around the playground, waited for by lockers, etc.

Teachers have told my child off for not staying away well enough. They are also considering introducing a system where the other child has a sign up saying if the other kids can approach them or not... which seems like a lot of responsibility to give an 8yo child with additional needs.

I genuinely don't know if I'm being unreasonable or if I'm just at the end of my tether with it all, but I don't think my child should have to be looking over their shoulder all the time.

I have a meeting with the school later today to discuss the fact that nothing has changed since the last meeting.

What can I realistically ask them to do? I think the child needs a 1 to 1 (they used to have one) but cuts, etc.

Keeping this short for the sake of making it readable but happy to answer any questions.

Anyone?

Tbh I would move your child. In my experience the schools are useless at dealing with this sort of stuff. If you don’t want to move I would keep a note of everything that’s happening and go to your MP.
I would ask the school today if there has been a risk assessment carried out and what risks were found and how they plan on minimising these risks.

That's terrible from the school. You're child shouldn't have the responsibility of having to try harder to stay away from another child. Your child should feel safe and happy in school. I'm sorry I've no real advice but I hope you get something sorted

Ask the school if they have: a risk assessment for keeping your child safe in school, as well as details request a copy; a copy of all the incident reports relating to your child for your records; details of the policy they are working to in relation to your child.

Don't get into the other child's situation, they can't discuss with you, so keep the focus on their legal obligation to prevent your child being intimidated, harassed and bullied in school. Also be clear that the option of calling the police to report each physical assault is something you are prepared to do and that you would let Ofsted know that it came to this as the school were not only unable to keep your child safe on premises, they refused to proactively do so.

Ask for a draft summary of the discussions to be emailed to you in about a week so you can review and comment.

I really don't want it to have to come to that - other than this issue, we love the school.

Something happened on Friday and another parent broke up the attack. (My child has not retaliated yet - it's not in their nature but also they are half the size of other child!) Turns out it was because my child was singing carols, SEN child got annoyed, my child went to apologise (!) and SEN child attacked.

When teacher was telling me about it, it did seem like they were annoyed with my child for not stopping singing immediately (this wasn't in class or anything btw, it was entirely appropriate singing!).

I think I want advice or comment from parents of SEN children - have you experienced anything like this? What would you expect to be put in place? I know inclusivity is important, but how far is that expected to go in your experience?

Ooh Becles that sounds good and official. Ok, will do that.

Without being mean, I have given this situation SO much good grace because of the other child's needs, but there has to come a point where I'm not teaching my child to be kind anymore, I'm teaching them to be totally passive in the face of ongoing bullying.

My daughter has asd and if she was hitting the other children I would be working with her and the school to stop it. Inclusion is important but not to detriment of every other child. I would ask the school if the other child’s parents are been informed of every incident and if they aren’t then ask that the school informs the parents.
No matter what your child has the right to be educated in a safe environment. Even if a child does have sen it isn’t an excuse to get away with violently attacking another child.

Thanks for the input Scottishmummy12.

What do you think about the sign system they have suggested? I think it's ridiculous and puts too much pressure on all the kids involved (and lets the teachers and school off the hook) but admit I am not particularly well versed in these things!

Other than the fact that your child is constantly harrassed and attacked you love the school? And your child loves it too, despite the fact their constantly harrassed and assaulted and havent been able to play with their friends in weeks?

Barbarian

The not playing with friends thing was last year (and a few weeks at the start of this year as new teachers were not informed of the policy). So for the most part my child is happy, doing well, has lots of friends, etc.

I suppose I feel like because other children also have been regularly hurt / shouted at / etc by this child then the school should do something more significant about it, as we are the epicentre in a wider problem.

I actually think they are failing the other child as well, they clearly need more support and it can't be much fun for them, being in a heightened state of agitation all the time.

Last meeting they said that Y4 was tricky for friendship groups. Argh!

My daughter is 6 but there is absolutely no way she would be able to cope with that. Especially if she’s upset she wouldn’t be able to do that. I would ask the school if there is a safe place for children to go to if they are feeling upset, angry etc. My daughters school have a room called the rainbow room where they can go if they are feeling like the need 5 minutes to cool off and it’s made a massive difference.
I think the school are trying to pass blame on to the other children if am honest with you, and I wouldn’t be happy if that was been used with my dd.
I think you should remind the school that they have a duty off care to all children in the school and not just the ones with additional needs.
I also don’t want my dd been treated different if she has done something wrong I expect the school to deal with it the same way they would deal with a non additional needs child.

As a parent of a child with SEN the sign system seems good in theory. In practice I don’t think it will be that helpful- the child may suddenly switch from being happy to unhappy and probably won’t have the foresight to change the sign.

I would advise your child not to approach the other child when they are upset (for example apologising after the singing), she’ll most likely get shouted at if the other child’s emotions are hightened.

The safety of your child is the most important factor. My child was being bullied by a girl in his class, she was goading him to get a reaction (she was very successful at causing him to have a meltdown). It was having a huge emotional impact so I spoke to the school and as it was happening at lunchtime told them I was going to bring DS home for lunch. It was knocked on the head very quickly.

Thanks both.

Dark That was my concern with the sign as well. I know I wouldn't remember!

Also the fact that I don't think it's fair to put the onus on the children to have to monitor their behaviour (as long as it's within the bounds of regular activity) and check a sign to see what they can do. It's just too much responsibility.

The school actually has very good provisions for this child - they have a tent and a special corner they can go to any any point if they want to. There is also a smaller 'safe' playground for breaks and lunches for if they are feeling overwhelmed.

I think you need to stop being so nice and understanding, and start demanding action. If you get no satisfaction from the teacher you need to ask to see the head, or speak to the governors. If you can't get hold of anyone, email the head and copy in the Chair of Governors, anyone with a title at the school. It's relatively easy for a teacher to 'deal' with things, but once they have the head, Chair, directors, etc wanting answers it becomes more of an issue.

It is hard. Getting 1-1 is close on impossible. We are currently battling the LA to get it funded for ds. I know he needs it, school knows he needs it but the la from their half hour meeting are refusing to write it in the plan.

But that doesn’t justify children getting hurt. Nor does it mean it’s fair on the child with additional needs either. Everyone is being let down at the moment

They may have a good provision on paper but it’s obviously not the right provision to help this child. Or they aren’t using it properly to help him.

Thanks all, I think you're right - and that deep down I know that we need to get tough and force them to step up.

As this is the second meeting there should be someone from the senior team there, so I just need to make sure we don't get talked down. (I am the type to come out of a meeting, think about it and then realise I've been charmed out of my original position!)

We were supposed to be told of every altercation since the last meeting and I know that hasn't happened. I think asking for a copy of the records will be interesting... does anyone know if I am legally allowed to see these?

Have you asked for a meeting with the Governors? I would do this too.

Something I found useful in this situation was clearly taking notes as to what was being said and agreed upon, so obviously there wasn't going to be the option of later disagreement as to what was stated in later communications. I also emailed this to the teacher later, and got them to email back their agreement that what I had noted was what had been said.

We also agreed a time and day for a follow up meeting to talk over whether strategies agreed had been used, whether they were working, or whether we needed to try something different. I also asked what would be next on the agenda in terms of ensuring the physical, mental and educational wellbeing of my child if the strategies agreed did not result in the issues being resolved.

It made it very apparent I was not going to be going away any time soon, unless the problem got resolved. Not being an arsehole about it (well, not trying to be), but being clear and firm about the reality that I would be doing my job as my child's advocate.

ime as the mother of 2 autistic sons, with different needs and behaviours in school, this:

1. SEN is funded, schools receive delegated funding to use at their discretion. This means that funding is not attached to a particular child and is not ringfenced. Tbh even when it is supposedly ringfenced, schools will use funding for one child to support others. This allows all sorts of nonsense - there is no real relationship between needs and funding, budgets may be set in April with no idea what needs will present in September, budgets may be used to fund all sorts of things that may or may not be useful like small group interventions, paying the salaries of TAs, nurture groups in SATs years, or even playground equipment.

1. There will be all sorts of bullshit arguments advanced in support of the above. In my view one of the worst is 'using' other DC to provide support or using other DC to police behaviour. EG. DS2s OT advised the use of fiddle toys to support his engagement. A 1:1 was also needed to manage this. Because this had not been budgeted for it was left to other DC. They could not cope. Not DS2's fault and not theirs. He would fiddle, they found this distracting and took his fiddle toys away, he would then sing, make noise etc, they would not be able to concentrate, get angry, call him names etc and then they would be told off. Come break time they didn't want to play with him. And they do this at the same time as running Friendship Circles. Lose/lose, waste of scarce funding.

Parents of DC with additional needs really do need the support of parents with DC who don't have additional needs to unite with them to demand that schools use their funding appropriately to enable inclusion.

Because the reality atm is that when it all goes belly up, DC with SEN are illegally excluded through part time time tables, off rolling and being forced into HE and the child and the whole family suffer (costing thousands). We are at crisis point - SENDIST tribunals are at an all time high and hearings are being adjourned because of lack of judges.

Ultimately, this is why parents of DC without SEN are experiencing the fallout.

Meeting went well I think- school admit that nothing has really changed since the last meeting so there's no fight with them on that front.

Didn't go gung-ho on the governors approach etc - there's a big Senco meeting next week so some better strategies should be implemented soon. I did ask for a report of that meeting (not the care plan, just the bits which affect my child) which I wouldn't have thought of doing if I hadn't posted this, so thank you. At least they will be aware how closely we are monitoring things now.

keepon - You're absolutely right, it's all about funding and it's the kids (and teachers) who ultimately are suffering. Your experiences sound equally frustrating. Are things better now?

My experience is to move your child

DD moved for year 6 - no more disrupted lessons - no anxiety around the playground -

It won't change the child just gets bigger and stronger -

greentulips sorry that it got that bad for your child. Did they want to move?

My child is quite resilient so would be horrified at the suggestion! (At this point anyway...)

Not saying yours wasn't resilient! Just that I don't think we are at that stage yet

She'd had years of this but being awful - she wanted to learn!! He was wasting her time.

She settled quickly and really well and was a different child. I should point out this boy was never mean to her or did her any harm. He was to others. But that was enough for her to have had enough and want to move.