Ways in which the poor are penalised.

[malificent7]

Dd loves her music but paying for lessons can be a struggle. Studen single mum. I do my best but i am sometimes late with payments . I have totally settled up and dont owe any more.
However as i was late with another payment dd is not allowed to go to thr last lesson of term. I have paid for this lesson however and im not allowed a refund for it. Its £10 worth which for someone like me could get food for Christmas or pay a bill.
Apparently she cant go as its not fair on parents who pay on time.

yabu.

the universal credit has nothing to do with you paying on time or not.

1. you either don't have enough money, so need to stop sending dd to music lessons. but you clearly have the money so...
2. you are disorganised and don't see it as a priority

either way you're not poor, so aren't being penalised. you're disorganised , and are being penalised.

just pay them on time. if needed and possible save up the money and pay a half-term/term in advance :/

Not sure I comprehend the tone of your post DorsetDays. Of course the music teacher needs the money but so too does a child need music. At £10 per lesson this must be provided through a school or LA and their should be a mechanism to widen participation.

My child has music lessons at school, if you haven't paid by the second week of lessons they're excluded and lessons terminated, and you're charged a fee on top of the missed lessons/notice period due as per contract. Her dance teacher has a policy of "no pay, no lesson", again as per the contract we sign. They have these policies because otherwise some people just don't bother paying, not all have cash flow problems and most of the non payers are perfectly able to afford it just don't want to pay.

I run a Rainbows group and we're just implementing a policy that says your kid can't come if you've not paid within first two weeks of term, and you'll forfeit their place (although we won't chase for the money for those two sessions). We had two non payers last term, endless promises etc yet happy to send their kid along. I'm implementing the policy because I found out one of them had been coming for a year without paying, dodging the issue every time they're asked. They're not coming back since we asked them for the money. Some who paid after then end of term because they "forgot". What it means is that the group doesn't have enough money to put on the activities all term, buy the badges when needed so all the kids lose out. We have a long waiting list too.

If you're having difficulties, discuss it with them and make an agreement.

Is it worth looking out for private lessons, you may pay a little more per lesson but many are more flexible, you will be able to pay weekly.

Ontheroses. What about giving the music teacher a break and paying on time for what is owed? How do you know the music teacher isn’t struggling financially or that their DC may have to miss out on something because people haven’t paid on time?

This ^^

I do believe it is poverty when you cant pay for what your child loves

What rubbish. Not having food or shelter yes but not having something like music lessons or a hobby is not poverty.

The OP has prioritised her desire to study rather than work, that's an active choice with consequences. She then can't moan about missing out on things or that her benefits are less etc.

My heart is about to break. So many penalised childrdn. Is it their fault their parents can't/won't pay?

It’s hard but maybe the music teacher or dance teacher also have children or other commitments and people not paying on time means food on the table for them. Musicians are notoriously poor.

Are the poor disadvantaged ? Yes, in all sorts of ways from more expensive pre paid electricity, not affording dentistry, not being able to buy in bulk and poorer health. That doesn’t mean someone who can afford dance lessons doesn’t need to pay on time.

Ontheroses. Not sure why it’s hard to comprehend. Music lessons aren’t free. Therefore if you frequently don’t pay or don’t pay on time there will be a penalty.

Stop describing yourself as poor- you have the luxury of being a student who can send her DD to private funded music lessons.

She could still be poor; plenty of parents go without to provide their children with things.

As a self-employed mum who is often having to juggle the pennies, I can understand why the music school are feeling the need to make a point. Just because you can pay late, it doesn't mean you should. If every person who used a regular service saw it in the same light as going to the supermarket, the world would run a lot more smoothly and this kind of situation wouldn't arise. It's dishonest to sign up for anything if you don't intend to make payments on time and, believe me, it does have an impact on these kind of businesses.

If you can afford for her to do music AND dance lessons, you need to pay for them on time. And if you can’t afford to be a student, get a job.

Sorry but I have been a student single parent and I had to work to supplement my income. And I couldn’t afford dance and music lessons.

You clearly aren’t poor if you are paying for both of those. And anyone who thinks poverty is if you can’t give your kids stuff they love needs to away and give their head a wobble. Poverty is can’t afford to heat the house and not a penny left until pay day. And not dance and music lessons.

I’m wondering if it is more a penalty charge for consistent late payment, even though you view it as a payment for the final session? I do hate to see kids penalised like this, but from the other side, my daughter (also a full time student) does a lot of private tutoring in her specialist area and I have been a bit shocked by the degree to which parents expect her to suck up their payments because of (insert random reason). She’s been forced to add penalty payments of £2.50 per lesson paid late. It’s in the contract and while enforcing it as lost her some clients, clients that don’t pay aren’t great to have, and she’s always been able to fill the lost slots.

If, like the OP, you’ve made an active choice to leave employment as a teacher in an independent school to retrain then I would assume you have done that having first ensured the financial security of your family.

Either prioritise paying for the lessons or give them up if you can't afford them.
I am a dance teacher (and also a single parent on a low income). I also have a lot of CF customers who think it's ok to leave paying for the last couple of weeks' payments for December dance lessons until January and who are ignoring payment reminders. Currently to the tune of £700!!! This happens every year - people try to avoid paying up that last £50 or so and juggling it to the next financial month when it suits them, and always across school holidays and Christmas. We also get the ones who are outraged when they have to pay for absence because their child was ill / went to a birthday party / on holiday. It's clearly stated in my T & C that all classes must be paid for, attended or not.

I have to pay my business overheads for my premises first (rent and electric) which means there is nothing left to pay myself if my customers don't pay on time. The parents would be livid if their employers suddenly decided not to pay them their December wage until January, yet they find it acceptable to make me wait until after Christmas for payment for a service that I've provided for their child .

OP - your decision to pay when it is convenient rather than when payment is due may well be having a direct impact on the music teacher and her household. Please read the T & C from when you enrolled in classes as the late payment policy will no doubt be clearly stated. You are not being penalised and it's not personal, for the teacher it's a business not a hobby and she owes you no favours. Most teachers will be lenient in a one-off situation if you have a quiet word and say you are struggling (I have a few discount scholarships for a handful of low income families) but from your OP it is clear that you are just taking the piss.

If they don't pay they don't get the lesson though, do they? Or do they?

When you reserve a space you stop someone else using it though don't you? So you book your child in for lessons but then don't pay for some. Ok the teacher can refuse to teach them but is unable to teach anyone else (because you occupied the place) and so the teacher has no income. How is that fair on the teacher?

I’m absolutely disgusted with the op. This isn’t poverty. It’s not a way in which the poor are penalised. She’s being a Cheeky Fucker expecting not to pay until it suits her.

Sympathies to you, OP. I do have some sympathy for the music teacher too, though. S/he might well have several families who are struggling as much as you are, and the effect on the teacher is not good.

Mind you, I have had more than one employer (in one case a moderately large company) frequently pay late, need chasing every month, plead poverty etc. It cost me a fortune in bank charges and penalties for late payment of my own bills. And one of the big problems with UC is it appears to be straightforwardly less money. I am absolutely dreading the day when they switch me onto it.

Do you not have anyone who can help you financially, occasionally, like parents? Grandparents often pay for a few extras.

The op has made a decision to leave the workforce and go and be a student. I get that. I did too. But that doesn’t give her the right to sponge off parents or pay bills late.

Right everyone...i admitted way back in the thread that j am being unreasonable...point taken.
I left teaching as i couldnt get the hours and it affected my nental health to go into an nhs role which is crying out for staff. Not that i should have to justify myself for that btw.

I do get real poverty, low wages high rent, high cost loans, prepay electric and heating, it is how I live but you hide lots of these things from your DC. Keep them fed and warm even if you go without. When I was unemployed and DP was earning crap money the hardest part was saying no to the DC you can't do your art class anymore or you can't go to your friends party we have no bus fare or gift.
So yes having to stop the DC doing things their peers do, stunting them socially is one of the worse parts of poverty.

I was late with payments whilst teaching too...when i switched to universal credit.

Then you can’t afford it. Say no.

Empathy gene seems to be missing on this thread. Sorry you are struggling financially OP - must be tough. I think charging for a service and not giving it is unreasonable. Most business work on a credit basis - they provide the service and bill afterwards...have a look at the T&Cs of your contract.

So yes it is unreasonable to pay late but i can assure you its not because ive been spending it on costa, prosecco and nails. When on universal credit rent, council tax, food and utility bills come first. You want your child to benefit from hobbies and realising you cant is tough.
Dd has seen the massive benefit to my mental health that leaving teaching has had and is happy and inspired that im training for a shortage role. So i will take the good from that. She should be right as rain to do lessons again when i qualify.