To think my sons school isn't doing enough?

[Desperatetobeamummyonedaysoon]

My son is Aug born and one of the youngest. In yrs R and 1 his teacher was strict. He genuinely had glowing reports and she had no concerns. She made one passing comment that he can occasionally be a little boisterous but she said hes young and likes to have fun. She said she had no concerns and wasnt misbehaving.

Im now being told by his yr 3 teacher that he is easily distracted, messes about and sometimes back chats. She gives him several warnings before taking action and isnt very strict. My son responds well to firm boundaries and discipline. She said in yr 2 they try to encourage them to choose the right behaviour rather than in yrs r and 1 where theyr are just told what to do.

She said his behaviour is getting worse and whilst at the moment academically hes doing well this will slip if his behaviour doesnt improve... one e.g is in assembly he doesnt sit still, he figits and messes around however when hes fully engaged he sits and learns/plays really well. Im firm at home.

I have noticed even in yr r and 1 but im noticing it more now that in say a school play or singing, the others stand quietly and sing or just listen whereas he figits, laughs or looks around and forgets to sing. He doesnt have adhd or anything else.. hes not that bad i dont think (but could be much better) .. but essentially hes just a happy, excitable little boy who's easily distracted and isnt great at sitting silently! Has anyone else gone through this?

I wish id held him back a year now as hes not mature enough to start juniors next year but i think its too late now (i.e. get him to re do yr 2 - in another school).

You say you don’t blame the school but make an awful lot of excuses for him. The fact he is summer born means naff all. I have a June and August baby, it hasn’t affected either academically or behaviourally. In fact the August born is one of the brightest in the class. It’s also not the teachers fault your child can’t behave, you can’t ask her to alter her entire teaching method purely to suit your son.

I agree with PP on training him to sit quietly in places like the cinema, theatre, library even. He should be able to do this at the age of six really so if you haven’t already, I would be visiting a GP to test for SN.

He sounds very much like a dyslexic child

Lacks attention span
Probably memory issues in knowing what to do
Figits/messes around

Look it up - 37 signs of dyslexia

If he was able to sit still and be good for the strict teacher, then he is clearly making a choice not to do so now because he thinks he can get away with it since the new teacher is not so firm. He needs to be taught respect. If he could do it then, he can do it now, he just doesn't respect his current teacher enough to do so.

Respect is learnt at home and at 6 he is old enough to understand that it doesn't matter whether the teacher is strict or not, he needs to behave.

Yep we go to the cinema and theatre and we went to a nativity in a church at the weekend. He was fine (although excitedly saying out loud.. mummy look at the donkey" etc... cinemas hes silent (but then thats very engaging).

Yes we have consequences at home for bad behaviour in school. Its almost as though he forgets about our chats though once hes in school. Its such a shame.

Im not saying its all down to being aug born as its not but there is a differnece between him and the children who are already 7 now.. theres a big difference.

I will try more of the group things suggested .. church, theatre, library etc. Thing is he tends to be excited so will talk loudly about things hes seeing. Meals out hes wonderful IF he has crayons etc. If i forget and the restaurant doesnt give them out then once hes eaten hes bored and wont sit still... i think most 6 yr olds are like that though. He doesnt need much to entertain him but a pencil and paper or something!

Thanks everyone

My oldest son was like this. I had several exasperated teachers say he was very fidgety etc. Eventually he was diagnosed with adhd.

The thing is, it is the schools responsibility I think.

I was happy to work with them, I was quite firm and structured at home, and I could back up a mutual plan with the school. Except they rarely had a good plan. More like, he’s just being distracting. And when I said yes, I agree, it’s very hard for him to concentrate, what are you doing about this in school to help him? They didn’t have much to offer. So I ended up having to suggest stuff. And also taught him the main curriculum at home.

We cannot remote control our kids while they are in school. It’s their watch. They do the disciplining there.

Kind but fidgety and finding the year 2 curriculum a bit of a step up at the start of the year isn't a crime and can easily be sorted so don't lose heart.

You've had some good advice such as you have to work with the teacher he has, and trying sitting still in other situations.

I wouldn't dread the meeting but really brainstorm together some ideas to help him. sometimes something relay simple like changing where they sit in assembly.

I think you're getting a bit of a hard time.

I have a dyspraxic summer born - and yes, when he's engaged, he's every teacher's favourite. BUT, when he's finding something hard, he'll talk to people to distract them to get out of doing whatever it is, he needs routine or he will forget what he's supposed to do (and that's not going to get better, his dad is the same, his little brother isn't). However he's a rules follower, so was the one putting the other kids back in line during school plays, not the one mucking about.

He's good academically (as long as he has a teacher he is engaged with), but due to other reasons (multiple country moves and school year shenanigans at international schools) he's ended up a school year behind, and he's excelling - I think it's absolutely been the right thing to do to pull him back a year (and all the research agrees).

His brother on the other hand is September birthday, and he's actually ahead a year, because he's a different child, with different needs (eg. refuses to learn to read, but very competent in all the practical areas). I think you need to step back, and make some hard decisions for your child.

The cinema is not the same, nor is the library (unless it's a spoken story time).

He has to get used to the idea of sitting down, silently, listening to another person talk to him as an audience. An actual human, speaking. Not reading a book or watching a film - those are different experiences.

The fact that he was shouting out during the Nativity (or, as you say, commonly tells you things you can see during other similar activities) is a good indication that more practice is needed. When he does it, then you need to be firm and explain that he can tell you all about what happened, but it needs to be after the sitting down part is finished, and while the sitting down part is happening, he needs to pay attention and listen to the person speaking.

All of the above only pertains to assemblies though. I agree with GottaGo that the backchat and messing around in class seems like a lack of respect for that teacher, which you may be unconsciously compounding if you also verbally or nonverbally indicate that you don't respect her either - even facial expressions. Underscore that the teacher is the teacher, and therefore it is not acceptable to backchat or mess around with ANY of them, regardless of whether your son likes them or not.

I find mumsnet aibu can be a bit brutal.

Everybody on here has perfectly behaved children, if not it’s either your fault or they must have special needs. No space for anything outside a round peg on here.

I am not in the slightest surprised that your son forgets your chats 4 hours after you spoke to him after all he is only 6!

He sounds like a bright , happy little boy who just has a lot of energy at the moment. You could try rewarding him at the end of each school day with 20 mins tv or something he likes.

What’s better having a child who is talking in the play or one standing there with their mouth open picking their nose? Neither just different kids and different behaviour.

I guess like @grasigeons said - see the meeting as positive. Do

• look like you take your sons fidgeting seriously
• say what works for you at home. Sounds like it’s fine.
• put the onus on them to manage him in school. Some teachers will blame your kid for their inexperience and it’s the fidgeting ones that annoy them. That isn’t you or your kids fault. I’d be very clear here, I’d say something like ‘whilst I can of course back up your concerns at home; I cannot be present so you do need to manage my sons behaviour in the school premises.’
• insist on ongoing communication, regular, to not only be more aware but so that the teacher has to be accountable

sorry my mind wandered

have they tried things like fidget toys, visual timetables (perhaps he isn't realising how short assembly is for instance so gets fidgety thinking it might go on ages) I know it sounds like i've headed down the SEN route, but these kind of things help all children. With a fidget toy it will become apparent very quickly if it is just a distraction or helping. A bit of blue tac would be fine.

They do the disciplining there.

Yes, and we then hear all about it on here!

Oh yes, absolutely see the meeting as a positive - if only (as in my case at one point) to establish that the teacher he was with was completely wrong and escalate it to the head and SENCO!

I hate to get all netmums, but you do know your child, I know (for example) that we sound like very odd parents warning our son's upcoming teacher about his ways of distracting them, and telling them it's OK to be firm with DS1 - get that across, tell them what you know works, and what doesn't.

Oh, and, my son went from a teacher that was making him (genuinely) cry, and disengage from school entirely and not wanting to go to another teacher who brought him bouncing back to life, and eager to get into school every day, within the same school and within weeks.

It was a change in attitude from the teacher, as evidenced in their reports - from 'only works when constantly reminded to concentrate' to 'works well when reminded to concentrate' - ie. all about a kind and positive attitude

Teacher can make a huge difference and it's a whacking great leap between Y1 and 2 (I've got one doing it at the moment and she got really really wobbly at times) - even with a fantastic teacher, and the one DD1's got this year for Y2 is amazing - really really nice and bubbly with a great sense of fun but takes absolutely no shit whatsoever. DD1's behaviour can be very challenging if left unchecked (she fits the MN definition of "spirited" if she's allowed to get away with it - she bloody well ain't allowed to!) but this teacher has her absolutely beautifully in line and convinced of her own innate level of awesomeness while doing so!

Poor DD2 on the other hand (my child with SEN) has the teacher from hell this year and is suffering. Awful situation - SENCO and I are monitoring it closely with regular review meetings as there's a total refusal to engage with agreed SEN provision for numerous children and I'm the bugger who's stood up and said that this is going on rather than just muttering discontentedly on the playground.

Have you had an actual meeting with the teacher about his behaviour to put strategies in place? I don't mean a quick update at home time. In my experience, children respond to clear boundaries and expectations which are reinforced with praise. If I were the teacher, I'd have visual aids (ie Boardmaker symbols) for the situations he finds difficult so that he has a constant reminder of what is expected of him (ie good sitting, listening, etc). I would also have a sticker chart or similar that he can take home to show you at the end of each day/ week (whatever works best) so that you can be involved in the praise. I don't think it's always helpful to point out to children when they are not behaving because they might not know what the 'right' thing to do is. It's far more beneficial to focus on the positives and then he'll understand what 'good' behaviour is. I'm a very strict teacher but my pupils have told me that I am fair and they know what to expect because I explain what I am looking and listening for in 'good' behaviour.
You say he wants to behave, so perhaps ask him who in his class is well behaved. What does that child do/ say that your child recognises as 'good' behaviour? Children learn from each other.
The wobble cushion is a good idea. I, personally, don't like fidget toys because they can add to the distraction but some say they work.
You sound like a parent who wants to work with the school. I believe that it is both the responsibility of the parent and the teacher to manage behaviour.

Some people on here so quick to diagnose very young children- dyslexia/ adhd! Terrible.
OP lots of children find jump from year 1 to 2 tricky as greater expectation of more independent work/ more sitting down /listening. Also curriculum has got harder, more intense and therefore more is expected of young children. I am not surprised your young summer born boy had found the transition difficult. Instead of being directive with him perhaps support him to think more independently, to problem solve, reflect on things. Use real life everyday examples as an opportunity to learn empathy skills. I'm sure he is used to getting lots of attention at home, which is great and understandable, perhaps teach him to wait on occasions (if you don't already do) - to speak / a request for you do something so that he learns to be patient and less impulsive.
Final thing you mention he does a few groups/ activities. It is always important to think about whether this is too much activity. Is he over-tired?

Grasspigeons.. Ive asked so many times that they choose for him who he sits with in assembly if he continues to make bad choices but they insist he needs to learn to choose. This all began in oct when i noticed he kept saying a certain boy was scribbling and drawing on his work (this other boy has additional needs). My son then started becomung friends with him and other kids and his behaviour has gone down hill but they wont separate them.. they want him to choose his friends :-/ hes only 6.. he needs encouragement to make good choices and sit with children who dont mess around. I tell him daily to cjoose who he sits with carefully but he forgets :-/

I really dont think he has adhd..out of school he seems 'normal'.. yes a little lively sometimes but thats his nature.. not a medical condition. If it gets worse then of course i'd get him assessed but he really is well behaved alot of the time just not all the time

Micke.. thank you! I really feel he would do far better starting next sept in yr 2 again (different school so he doesn't realise all his friends are in junior school). His behaviour has progressed and he maturing but just not as much as some. I really do feel he may struggle in yr 3 im sept. I feel in another years time he will be more mature.

Im hoping this drama class will really help

My youngest was very much like this. Also one of the younger in his year and imo far too young to start school. I had to accept that while I did my best at home, it didn't always work. The best I could do was to back up his teacher and not blame her, hoping that she wouldn't blame me too much either.

I think the point about possible emergence of any SEND issues is that when children are in R/Y1 those fidgety/ shouting out / difficulty maintaining concentration type behaviours are pretty age typical. As the children mature in y2/3 it’s often then that the gaps between a child with SEND and their peers’ ability to cope in the classroom or assembly etc become more apparent.

I'm a bit mystified that people think a behaviour problem at school is primarily the parent's to fix. He's at school, they are the ones having the problem, they are the ones in charge of him at the time.

In extreme case problems may not be fixable, in a tiny minority of cases the parents may be capable of fixing it where the school can't, but surely 99% of fixable problems need to be fixed by the school?

Another parent who downplays their child's behaviour. How is it the schools issue to resolve his behaviour? You are the parent. You parent and discipline him not the school

Discipline within school is the job of the school. By all means ask parents to help, if they think it will do any good, but some parents will be unwilling or unable to help, so by default school must have methods that don't depend on parents cooperation.

Thanks everyone i cooperate with the teachers fully as that whats best but I think I just have a young lively, happy energetic boy who's not that great at sitting silently when hes not fully engaged but I don't think thats the end of the world. He needs discipline and less "choose the right path" at age 6 but hey ho I cant change the schools approach. Fingers crossed the junior school is a little more firm :-/

I think it’s generally the case that children are expected to take more and more responsibility for their own behaviour as they’d go to through school so I wouldn’t bank on him getting any more adult direction in juniors.