Help me not be an AIBU neighbour!

[HJ40]

Hello, we have a potentially tricky conversation to have with next door and I’d love some mn ideas on how to broach the subject!

We’ve lived in our terraced house for two years and the fence between us and NDN on one side wasn’t in great shape when we moved in. NDN has lived there forever. She’s fit, healthy and about 70, so whilst older than us, definitely not elderly. We have never seen much of her, but always a friendly ‘hello and how are you’ between us when we do. She has once said something about the fence, in a nice way ‘it’s quite wobbly and you’ll need to do something about it’.

Said fence took a battering in some winds last winter so DH and I have supported it as best we can from our side with some planks which look like ugly buttresses in our garden.

We’ve finally had the fence looked at it as we want to get some work done on our garden and it can’t be saved. It needs to be completely replaced. The biggest problem is that she has some raised beds on her side which just have soil piled up against the wood without a waterproofing and the bottom 50cm is rotten all along.

Despite the fact the ‘back’ of the fence faces us, I’ve rechecked the land registry plans and it turns out it is her fence! Absolutely no doubt about it. Given she’s lived there forever, I suspect she assumes it’s ours because she has the ‘front’ of the fence rather than that she’s trying to be a CF.

DH and I want to remove the temporary buttressing from our garden so we can actually use it, but when we do, the fence will fall down so we need to talk to NDN. I can be a bit forthright so please can you help me with how you’d approach this? Don’t want it to seem like a blame game or holding her to ransom over the fence falling down but ultimately something needs to be done.

(And I don’t know if it helps, but the person we had look at it would do the work so we can offer them as a suggestion but don’t want to seem too pushy).

[biggidybon]

If you were going to pay for a new fence anyway before you realised it's hers, why not offer to go halves? I'd do that to keep peace with a neighbour. Nothing worse than making enemies of neighbours.

[dippledorus]

You’re being a bit of a CF.

You want her to pay for the fence now you know it’s hers but before you knew you would have paid for it. And you’re seeking ways to make her pay for it on here.

[Steamedbadger]

I would be thinking about going halves, but would want her to get her side fixed so that the rotting from the raised beds won't happen again.

[OhDearGodLookAtThisMess]

As an aside, it's a commonly-help misconception that the non-fence-owner has to have the "nice" side of the fence. The workings and fixings aren't always on the less nice side, for a start.

[HoustonBess]

Find out roughly how much a new fence will cost, then you'll know the price of avoiding any conflict and whether it's worth the argument!

[loubluee]

I know you say ‘if she owns the house’. But she may have bought it donkey years ago where it was a lot cheaper. Her husband may have paid for it. There is a whole host of things. Just because she owns doesn’t mean she can afford to pay. I obviously don’t know her and her finances! But please also don’t put her in a position where she may start worrying and not pay some bills such as heating because she thinks she has to pay. (I’m not saying you will!! Just please be mindful)

[AmIAWeed]

We ended up paying for a fence fully on our neighbors side as they refused to. There was a hedge with so many gaps they could wave when pulling into their drive and we were in the back garden so for privacy and because we have dogs (we put temporary fencing up - literally just wire to keep the dogs in as the house was for sale when we got our dog) we had to foot the bill. They kept asking when it was being done which should have rang alarm bells - 2 weeks after it was up their puppy arrived!! Our neighbor on the other side however was delighted when I said we'd replace the old chain link with a wooden fence, we'd do it at the end of summer as needed to save up. She immediately offered to pay half to get it done straight away - guess which neighbor were friendly and helpful to as a result?!
What's important, saving some money or having a great relationship?

[MereDintofPandiculation]

doesn't home insurance require you to keep things well maintained? Home insurance doesn't require you to maintain but will not pay out for "wear and tear" or poor maintenance. Only relevant for things that might be claimed for. Home insurance doesn't usually pay out for damaged fences, therefore it's irrelevant in this case. As other have said, there's no obligation on you to replace a fence that you own.

[ShotsFired]

Frame it as the opportunity to get access to add backs onto her raised beds, so the new fence doesn't rot like this one?

(also with the "we were surprised to see..." line)

[LucieMorningstar]

I think I’d say something along the lines of “we’ve looked in to having it replaced but we can’t as it’s actually your fence so we need to discuss with you what can be done about it and the mud”. Que her saying it’s not hers etc though.

[LemonTT]

I think you need to take stock of your assumptions and motivations here. As others have said she is not obliged to replace her fence on her property. People put fences or hedges in at their own discretion. Some people never fence off their garden, leaving it to their neighbours. Most people recognise mutual benefit and go halves. In a terrace it’s probably an historic thing, not a community obligation.

Why do you think she doesn’t know that it is her fence and that she doesn’t know that it needs repair or replacement. There is no reason for this and I wouldn’t make this assumption. It is quite conceivable that she does know this and is ok with the fence falling down. She might then decide to replace it or remove it. That’s all up to her. I don’t know what you are trying to achieve by going round there and telling her she needs to replace the fence. Sounds a bit bullying to me.

In reality you want to make your garden look nice. This is your issue and you want to replace the fence on her property. So you could offer to pay. Or you could wait for it to fall down and put up your own fence. But really it’s not your fence and not your business. The best thing to do is ask her if she has any plans for the fence as you are having your garden redone. Then see what she says. But you can’t compel or bounce her into doing something she doesn’t want to or can’t afford.

[fanomoninon]

I agree with others that personally I'd be prepared to sink some money (although not the full cost of the fence) to maintain neighbourly relations (& some control...) if it seems to be required.
However, I would be concerned that if she has raised beds against the fence, that will massively impact on how quickly it rots at the bottom, so I'd probably (nicely...) want to make it a condition of putting any money towards the fence that she finds a solution for that element (e.g. adding a separate 'back' to the raised beds/ removing them)

As others have said, if it's her fence, you probably can't legally force her to replace it (not all back gardens have fences), and certainly you can't force her in a neighbourly way, whereas offering to put some money towards it might mean you get a say on what goes up and when. But open the conversation - she may be surprised and embarrassed and happy to replace at her cost.

One other thing: personally, I'd have this conversation in the new year - fence costs at Christmas doesn't feel quite right!

[JellyBears]

Thing is if she owns the fence and isn’t interested in spending money replacing it and you aren’t interested in paying half. There’s little you can do..

[ChimesAtMidnight]

Unless the deeds state otherwise, the neighbour is under no obligation to replace or fix the fence; you can replace the fence yourself or erect your own fence on your side of the boundary.

[Bobaboutwhat]

You definitely need to show her the land registry plans - she can’t protest that the fence isn’t her responsibility if its there in black and white. It’s frustrating that the fence was put in the wrong way though, like you say she should have the ‘bad’ side if its hers.
I would do a bit of reverse psychology and come across as being apologetic and concerned about the situation - “We are so surprised that the fence is yours and has obviously been put in the wrong way, we’re so sorry but its here on the plans” Show her the plans. “We just dont know what to do as the fence desperately needs replacing, especially as its rotten at the bottom for some reason” (ahem). Hopefully she will accept the situation and responsibility!

[Collaborate]

The law says that she cannot be forced to repair the fence unless the deeds say she must maintain it, and she is the original party to the deed that said that. Chances are she's not.

So it's her fence, and she can destroy it if she wants by piling earth against it. What neither of you can do is force the other to repair it. She must however keep the soil on her side of the boundary. She has to retain her land.

If you want a fence of your choosing you'll have to either pay for it yourself or go halves.

[ineedtostopbeingsolazy]

We replaced our fences and we have the 'nice sides' is this not how it's supposed to be?
We paid for the fences so we put the flat sides on our side.

[eddielizzard]

What fanomoninon said.

[oh4forkssake]

I'm afraid I'd suggest putting some money towards it. Can she see the fence on her side? We couldn't (it's behind mature bushes) so didn't know the real state of it until it was pointed out to us.

[LakieLady]

We ended up paying for a fence fully on our neighbors side as they refused to.

The same happened with us. The houses were built in the 1930s with chestnut paling and then a hedge planted along it. By the turn of the century, the palings had rotted through and the hedge had got all gappy at the bottom.

All next door would do was patch up holes with bits of old board and stuff when their (large) dog got into my garden. The man was abusive and offensive and refused to discuss it. After an incident when his dog crashed through the hedge and practically ripped my small dog a new arse (he actually removed fur from near his bum!), I wrote them a polite letter suggesting we discuss sorting out the boundary and saying that, if we could reach a mutually agreeable solution, we would happily consider contributing towards the cost.

Nothing, nada, not a word. In the end, we had the cheapest dog-proof solution put up: chain link with metal posts. It was put up alongside the hedge and most of the time you can't actually see it. You only know it's there when the hedge has been cut back hard on our side.

Many years later, we replaced the fence at the bottom of the garden jointly with the neighbours at the back. That involved digging out some of the original hedge.

The CF next door had the cheek to ask if he could have some of the hedging we'd dug out to plant in gaps in the hedging at the front of his house! Needless to say, we didn't give it to him.

[Girlzroolz]

I’ve got 3 properties and have been involved in having 5 fences replaced over the last 2 years (I know, it sounds absurd).

I’ve had it go every which way. Friendly, belligerent, new build, 40yo fence, fancy fence, wire-and-post fence, brick, timber, I paid, they paid, half each. Here’s what I’ve learnt.

-it’s all going to take a lot longer than you think to be done.
-whoever needs the fence/cares more about the fence will pay for it (or a proportion of it) regardless of the law.
-everyone thinks their mental image of a fence is the only and obvious one.
-there are eleventy billion different functions/features a fence could have. Don’t assume your side and their side achieve the same purpose.
-people get funny about fences. Even otherwise normal people.

The last neighbour who innocently rang me to chat fences was surprised to find me instantly weepy. Fence research, fence discussions, fence contractors, fence shenanigans and fence disputes have turned me into a wreck.

Proceed carefully OP, and prepare to be very patient.

[knittedjest]

Proceed very carefully and check your attitude. You go in making demands and thinly veiled threats about insurance companies you will never get a fence.

[charlestonchaplin]

I thought the land registry only shows who is responsible for maintaining the border, not who owns any feature near the boundary.

What I mean is that the true boundary may be in her garden whilst the previous owners of your house erected their own fence. Perhaps she took down her old fence when the neighbours erected a new fence, gaining some land and losing a dilapidated fence. She may still have markers of the original boundary in her garden. Perhaps this is unlikely but it isn't impossible.

[Dodie66]

As other people have said she might not have money to replace the fence. As she is elderly she might only have her pension and no savings. A lot of older people own properties and can’t afford to maintain things. We replace fences both sides of our garden because we didn’t get on with neighbours and wanted to replace the lower fences with higher ones. Have you had a price for it? You will probably find it costs a lot more than you think. Get quotes from several people to compare too

[PinguDance]

Completely agree with GirlsRoolz that whoever cares more will end up paying. That sounds like you so defo be prepared to offer half the cost. Especially as she doesn’t have to fix it so will essentially be doing you a favour by doing anything to it - whether that’s fair or not that’s potentially how she will see it.