Something really strange just happened

[InSwamTiddler]

I’ve NC for this as I’m not sure what to make of it and I’m really confused.
Back story - I was raised Catholic, but I’m atheist now. I work in a science based field and for as long as I can remember I have believed in the factual, empirically provable reality of things. I don’t believe in God or the afterlife, or ghosts / paranormal stuff.

Nearly 9 years ago my dad died. He died very suddenly and unexpectedly at a young age in my childhood family home.

Due to some circumstantial things, I’m currently living back in my family home.
My mum has mentioned a few times over the years that she’s felt my dad’s presence here and I’ve always been openly kind to her about it, but thinking “nope. Your imagination is going crazy because you’re grieving”. She’s mentioned she’s felt pressure on the bed as if someone has sat down on it next to her for example.

Anyway, this morning DP has left for work and I was still in bed. I was listening to him brushing his teeth, then popping the kettle on so I was definitely awake, but a little drowsy.

I felt him get back into bed with me and thought “what’s he doing?”... it’s not unusual for him to pop back into the bedroom and give me a hug or kiss before leaving the house.

I felt the heaviness of him pressed against my back and his arms wrapped around me. There was a heat between my shoulder blades I have never felt before but I wasn’t scared but I knew it wasn’t DP then. I heard the front door open so DP was leaving the house. Then my whole back went tingly a bit like pins and needles but not in an unpleasant way.

When it was happened I felt calm and warm but I’m freaking out now and can’t stop crying. Sounds silly but I feel like it may have been my dad.

I was 100% awake, not dreaming. I leant over and flicked the lamp on straight after.

Does anyone believe in this stuff? I never have but now I’m questioning everything.

It’s called giving comfort JosieJasper and why not state it as fact if that is what i believe, the same way non believers state as fact that it’s all nonsense. Fwiw I’d only say that to someone who i’d perceive to get comfort from it, and why not, what is there to lose, apart from giving a deeply sad bereaved person something to cling to. What other explanation would you like me to give her that would give her comfort.

Im sorry about your mum, i lost mine too, we were also very close, and like you i haven’t had any contact, i never expected to neither. I don’t think that’s how it works. (she’s at peace) But i’m not going to refuse to give comfort to someone who has signalled that they believe in an afterlife and maybe want reassurance just because you don’t feel the same way. That post i made was to a particular person, it isn’t your shout to pull it apart itms. Apart from all that why not take comfort from the many posters who have had experiences with their loved ones, why should we disbelieve them just because we haven’t had the same, . I put that down to, some people are just more perceptive or open to that sort of thing.

Is this the sort of thread where people actually want explanations of things- like the "you can't get something from nothing" trope- or is it the sort of thread where anything except complete belief in people's experience as absolute truth is "pissing on chips"?

for everyone in relation to the heartbreaking stories of loss.

The problem is that unless you have experienced something like the OP you can not believe it. I used to think people who spoke of ‘visits’ or sightings were deluded and then unfortunately had an unexplainable experience. If you know it all to be untrue then lucky you, long may it last. If you’ve experienced the unexplainable just keep it to yourself because everyone who hasn’t experienced anything like it (most people) will think you’re bonkers and you can’t defend yourself. Just know what you felt and understand your not mad, deluded or imagining things.

"The problem is that unless you have experienced something like the OP you can not believe it"
I absolutely believe her. I have experienced plenty of strange things myself. The difference is, I know that they have rational explanations which are usually pretty easily found.

I love to hear of all these experiences, sad as they are but also very heartwarming. Hope there's more to come.

Nobody really knows for sure but if it felt to you like it was your dad and that brought you comfort then cherish it as such. I don’t 5hunknit hurts to think of it that way. I lost my dad ten years ago, suddenly. Last year, I was looking out of my kitchen window and saw this unusual bird. I have never seen one like it before and the very first thing that came to my mind was dad. I dunno why and how I felt he was visiting to check I was ok. I called my daughter to come see it cos she likes birds and it was gone. I was overwhelmed with emotion that day. I wasn’t thinking about him beforehand or anything. I can’t explain this but I have come to realise that there is a whole lot of things we don’t know about, we can’t see and we can’t quite explain. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it just mean we don’t understand them yet. I think there is more to existence than the physical stuff that we can see and have learnt to interpret. If you think about it, what makes a person who they are is not just their body but also their spirit and soul, their personality and presence. Although the body perishes when a person dies, the other elements of that person must go somewhere. Maybe to another dimension or hang around us but in a different form that we can’t see, or maybe reincarnate? Who knows? I try to keep an open mind about these things. Sending you love x

The problem is that unless you have experienced something like the OP you can not believe it

I've experienced sleep paralysis which started about 20 years ago before you could just google everything and I was terrified by it. I had no idea what it was but it felt very much as if something was trying to communicate through my body and holding me down, pinning me to the bed. I would have these kind of audio hallucinations whilst this went on. This was in a flat where I often felt a presence.

A few years later, when I still occasionally had these episodes, I found out about sleep paralysis. Fitted my symptoms completely and I found that if during these episodes I talked myself down and back into a deep sleep I would be fine. The sense of a presence? I think it more likely that my mind is an odd place than that there were ghosts. I have stress and depression, and migraines. I have a monkey brain. Sometimes it does odd shit. I just see it as a neuro-chemical misfire.

I've felt something cat-like or possibly a small dog, walk on the bed and sometimes lie down next to me when there are no cats or dogs around. I've had many cats and dogs and miss them dearly. Again, I think it more likely that my strange brain, which has evolved by chance, is having a bit of a blip, than that my beloved dogs are coming back from the afterlife.

So yes, I've had weird experiences. I just doubt very much that they're a spiritual presence. This life is weird enough without needing that shit in it.

Can I just ask- if the OP felt she had been visited by an evil presence that had really scared her, would people still be saying “oh, yes, definitely real”?

My dad died 17 years ago.
I am the least woo person you could meet.
I have felt his presence 3 times. Not for ages then recently. My mum had heart failure and I was on a long drive.
Maybe it's all in the head but I am certain of it

I am the least woo person you could meet

No. No you're not.

bertrand

The difference is, I know that they have rational explanations which are usually pretty easily found

If you already know this, then you don't need to come on these threads to chat about explanations, because you already know. So why are you here - just to tell people they are wrong? Is that not a bit goady? Especially you have not studied any branch of science to degree level or beyond, meaning that the rational explanations you have may not be correct?

Is this the sort of thread where people actually want explanations of things- like the "you can't get something from nothing" trope- or is it the sort of thread where anything except complete belief in people's experience as absolute truth is "pissing on chips"?

If someone tells you their experiences and their thoughts and feelings about it, you can validate their thoughts and feelings (as they are talking about their thoughts and feelings) without yourself having the same "complete belief". Can you see that this is a third option to the two you have mentioned? AFAIK this third option is a social rule which applies in most cultures today, not just on MN and not just in relation to the paranormal. Other people have thoughts and feelings which are different to yours, and that is ok, you can accept it without believing in everything they believe in.

I think if you want explanations of things it is down to you to study and research and explore ideas. If you study anything at degree level or beyond you will realise how much we don't know.

Can I just ask- if the OP felt she had been visited by an evil presence that had really scared her, would people still be saying “oh, yes, definitely real”?

It is to do with validating other people's experiences and allowing them to decide how they think and feel about it. If an adult wants to talk about experiencing something evil or frightening they may be looking for help with how to deal, or support, and being told it is nonsense isn't going to help.

calihummer

I just doubt very much that they're a spiritual presence. This life is weird enough without needing that shit in it.

I think that that is totally reasonable view for you to come to, we all see things differently.

M3lon

I apologise if my earlier response to your the universe started with dead matter, and absolutely nothing has changed caused offence, it wasn't intended. Responding more seriously to what you said, if you think about the very first life forms in the sea, and how over billions of years they evolved to trilobites, and then eventually to humans, do you not find the question of how we now arenow (relatively) free thinking with consciousness and each with unique ideas and able to communicate unique ideas to each other just amazing? How did that happen? Neuro science has not yet found an answer to that as far as I know.

“Calihummers”. I really don’t think that you should be describing other people’s deeply spiritual experiences as ‘that shit’ !! Sleep paralysis is all very well, but I know my own experience was real. Granted, I am grieving but I was awake, my TV was on with the sound turned down and I had just got back into bed after getting a tissue. I was wide awake worrying about the funeral. I really think that some of the comments on here are unkind at best and offensive at worst. Just as no one can understand these experiences unless they have had them for themselves, no one can possibly understand the nature of grief at the loss of a life partner until it happens. You DO look for relief from the pain and sometimes the brain DOES play tricks on you, but to have cold water poured on the comfort taken from these experiences is not nice. As I said before, we won’t know what happens after death until our own time comes and the world as we know it may be full of shit, but it would be a much better place if we were a bit more open minded and tolerant of other people’s beliefs and experiences.

I haven't RTFT but oh, what a lovely experience. Unnerving certainly but something to treasure. My DF is currently living his last days of life in hospice, so especially touching.

“If an adult wants to talk about experiencing something evil or frightening they may be looking for help with how to deal, or support, and being told it is nonsense isn't going to help“

No, of course it won’t. But being told a rational explanation for their experience probably will. So if you don’t know about sleep paralysis, for example, then I would imagine it would be a huge relief to be told that’s what you had experienced.

I too wonder why the scorners bother to come on these threads, it’s like they get a kick out of trying to spoil people’s beliefs. When someone has lost someone close it’s cruel and unnecessary to try to take away what could be their only comfort and hope. If you don’t believe, fine, but why the need to keep telling us. Why does it bother you so much.

I too wonder why the scorners bother to come on these threads, it’s like they get a kick out of trying to spoil people’s beliefs. When someone has lost someone close it’s cruel and unnecessary to try to take away what could be their only comfort and hope. If you don’t believe, fine, but why the need to keep telling us. Why does it bother you so much.

Er, because the OP's of such threads generally write to ask for opinions and/or explanations, that's why. They invite discussion.

If you were talking, in person, to someone recently bereaved who said they'd been visited by their deceased loved one and it brought them comfort, then yes, it would be crass to belittle it, but that's not what this thread is. The OP wanted opinions: Does anyone believe in this stuff? I never have but now I’m questioning everything ; she got them. She was also pretty good at taking them on board.

Anyway, it'd be a dull woo thread if BertrandRussell didn't show up at some point!

I do not mock, scorn, scoff, piss on chips or any of the other unpleasant actions suggested. I just don’t think it’s helpful to leap, or encourage others to leap to supernatural explanations for natural events.

If you were talking, in person, to someone recently bereaved who said they'd been visited by their deceased loved one and it brought them comfort, then yes, it would be crass to belittle it,

It is exactly the same online. Just as crass.

bertrand

But being told a rational explanation for their experience probably will.

I really cannot imagine why you would think that. I really think you need to look into the importance of validating other people's thoughts and feelings. It seems to be something which you really struggle to understanding, in relation to this, in relation to favours, MILs, all the threads where you are often told you lack empathy and are causing offence.

So if you don’t know about sleep paralysis, for example, then I would imagine it would be a huge relief to be told that’s what you had experienced.

Except you have been told more than once by people who have experienced sleep paralysis that it is nothing like what the OP experienced, for example.

I just don’t think it’s helpful to leap, or encourage others to leap to supernatural explanations for natural events.

And there it is again.

It is not for you to tell other adults how to think and feel. Boundaries, bertrand, boundaries.

As for the "pissing on chips" that delightful expression was yours.

The thing is Bertrand you don't seem to allow for actual open-mindedness or the possibility that you (and anyone who says this isn't possible) could be wrong. Even if it's only a small chance you could be wrong, it's more scientific to accept that and respect the feelings of those who may believe that.

If anyone dares to suggest it could be OP's dad, it's as if you think they are "leaping" to a supernatural conclusion and adopting a blind unquestioning woo outlook. No they're not - it's possible to hold a scientific rational position that says "Well there are science explanations A B and C but as no one actually knows what happens after death, it still could have been your dad". That's a factual statement - it could have been, because we don't know if that's possible.

It is exactly the same online. Just as crass

As I said in my post, the OP was canvassing opinion. Asking what people believed, asking for explanations. These threads usually are. In which case it is not crass to offer those opinions and possible explanations.

She didn't say "lets have a big woo-in".

BCA2RTFT I think it is totally fair enough to offer suggestions to the OP of things it could be, such as hallucinations or sleep paralysis, but in relation to the OP and other posts, some of the replies have gone well beyond that.