To ask what you would do? Neighbours arguing

[TheDeuteragonist]

We have just moved into a new house.

Haven't met the neighbours yet but seen them in passing and smiled and said hello.

I've been working late tonight and decided to have a clean when I'd finished.

Was listening to a ghost story podcast and heard banging. Sounded like it was coming from upstairs.

Went up to check on DD, thought she'd fallen out of bed but she was fine. Came back down and heard banging again, felt like it made the ceiling shake.

Went up again and sat on the landing and deduced it was coming from next door. Pressed my ear to the wall and it's the neighbours arguing. Well, more like the man shouting. Lots of banging going on. I couldn't hear the woman at all.

I know there are kids in the house, 2 young ones.

DP works nights so I text him basically not really knowing what to do. He says to stay out of it but the banging really scared me as I couldn't place what it was (I.e not doors being slammed).

I asked DP if I should call the police but he says not too. How would I feel if someone called the police when we argued? I responded that we shout sometimes (rarely) but we never make that level of noise with it and there's usually two voices shouting.

I really don't know what to do. I'm home alone with DD so don't really wanna knock on and look nosy but I don't want to sit idly by while something bad happens to someone.

What would you do?

I don't understand the 'it could just be this or that' argument because by the same token it could be something more serious and surely you would prefer to be safe than sorry?

We weren't there but all we have to go off is what the OP has said. She has said that the noise concerned her and she was worried about the wife so therefore the best thing to do is report it for your own peace of mind.

And @dingdong and Augusta and what if that ‘one off occurance’ had been the abuse of a terrified child? Maybe it didn’t happen very often, but it’s effects would last. How would you know that it wasn’t? How would you feel if that was the case and you’d done nothing?

This wasn’t a party. It wasn’t a group of people arguing together on a non threatening way. It didn’t have an immediate non concerning context. It was a lot of shouting and banging late at night. A cause for concern as that is a red flag.

Safeguarding advice is to report it. Not to investigate or interfere and not to hide behind the excuses, it’s not too bad or it’s not my place to get involved. The OP had a genuine concern. There is a difference between 2 people arguing and somebody being out of control and violent, verbal and physical, towards another.

The police can arrive quickly and they do take it seriously. They know DV cases can end up with fatal consequences and they are the ones who have to witness the outcome. It’s logged and reported and could help the victim further down the line.

Some very bad and ill informed advice on here. If it’s being a busybody then the world needs more busybodies.

I'd go for avoiding what is the worse that could happen - if there is a logical explanation (like a massive argument about a picture placement while its being put up) then the worse case scenario is you feel a bit sheepish. If there is domestic violence then the worse that could happen by not calling the police is that someone could get very hurt, and it could be a child. I would also wait until the man is out then go round and ask if she is OK, since you heard arguments and banging.

Call 101. I wish my neighbours had done that when I was a child.
Actually, I wish my neighbours had called 101 when my exh was assaulting me. I managed to call 999 before he started strangling me.
It may not be dv. It may be dv. Why take the risk?

No matter how discreet the police are, it's going to be pretty obvious that it was a neighbour who called them. OP needs to consider her own safety too

I had this where I used to live. It happened just after pub kicking out time a couple of times a week. I never heard the wife and teenage child, just the man shrieking horrible abuse at them, plus occasional doors slamming and stomping footsteps on the stairs. It could go on for hours some nights. I just decided it was none of my business.

I didn't call the police until the day I very clearly heard furniture being overturned and clattered about, the woman screaming, and someone shouting about not needing an ambulance.

I can't tell you how much I wished I had called the police earlier.

Don’t get the ‘oh it’s only one incident’ at all. So even if it could have been violence because the OP did not know for sure she would have been out of order for calling?

It’s the polices job to determine what happened. Not us. It’s our job to look out for each other by reporting what we think might be a crime / harm. It’s that simple.

Yes, I see people driving cars sometimes. They could be acting as a getaway driver for a robbery. I see people pick things up in the shops all the time. So they could be shoplifting. But do I report every person I see driving a car or in a shop?

No I don’t. Because I’m a responsible adult and I would have to be a lot more convinced a crime was happening. Because there is a distinct possibility that the OP would be calling out the police for a noisy group coming back from a Christmas party, and those police would be wasting there time with that while somewhere else a woman was being beaten up or some kid was being stabbed, and there were no police there to help them because they were all tied up with mumsnetters ringing the police over every single slammed door, raised voice or fart that comes from next door.

I have been in a situation where calls to the police to report anything and everything were used as a form of harassment because of someone’s extreme anxiety. It can cause huge problems for people’s work, for being screened for jobs, getting visas for the USA, with your kids and SS. It really isn’t just something that has no impact as long as a crime isn’t happening. It still does.

I’ve also called the police and SS on a family myself when I was absolutely certain DV was happening.

Phoning the police when you don’t even know if there is any sort of problem can cause an awful lot of stress and upset.

And this - putting your ear to the wall to listen in and not even knowing if the wife was in the house or what was happening - it’s a shitty thing to do, to call the police on someone who might just be a bit pissed and noisy. Borderline harassment IMO. Plus if this sort of thing happens a few times and you call the police out over nothing, they’re going to stop taking you seriously.

The information the OP has is incredibly flimsy. She’s doing some huge leaps to conclusions here.

If you have genuine concerns then report and allow the experts to assess. If there are children in the house the police must report the incident to SS who will also assess. If the family is already known to SS this incident will add to their assessment and decision making. If the mother feels in need of support she will have an opportunity to disclose DV and get the support she needs.
Neighbours may be unaware of effect DV can have on their children and this may be a learning curve.

There is a difference between 2 people arguing and somebody being out of control and violent, verbal and physical, towards another.

But you have absolutely no idea which of these it is, you are just jumping to the conclusion it’s the latter.

those police would be wasting there time

I'm pretty sure the police would rather waste a small amount of time investigating something and determining it be nothing than not be called to a scene which is something.

Who are you to determine what is going on inside the house? You are taking wild guesses that it's people coming home from the pub etc.. etc.. We are suggesting OP leaves it to the police to look into in case it is something serious not saying that it 100% is.

It very well may be a group coming back from the pub in which case phew! But it could equally be a situation which some of us have described being in ourselves. Who are we to determine which it is? That's the job for the police.

If you see a car driving erratically and at high speed not following the rules of the road whatsoever- something flags up in you that this car is more of a risk than the other cars

If you see someone sneaking things under clothing rather than the usual of picking up items and putting in a trolley - something flags up in you that this behaviour is more likely to be criminal than the behaviour of other shoppers

If you hear a neighbour yelling and banging at gone midnight and your ceiling is shaking - something flags up in you that this behaviour is not like the behaviour of everyone else right now and quite possibly something to be quite worried about, especially if you don't know what the banging is being directed at!

The police are quite capable of diverting officers to more immediately urgent situations and know far more than you if they are having a slow night or incredibly tied up. It isn't first come first served... it's done on a priority basis that changes constantly depending on other calls coming in!

My father is a police officer. I shall ask him next time I see him whether he would consider it a waste of his time or not. I'm confident it would be the latter.

It is their job to investigate things, not ours to determine what is worth their investigation.

The examples you have given are silly. They are normal behaviours such as driving a car etc... But if I saw someone driving in wavy lines rather than straight it would be fair to suggest he may be drunk. He might not be, but it's a fair suggestion and a cause for concern.

But you have absolutely no idea which of these it is

Thank you, that is exactly our point.

The banging is almost certainly the man slamming his fist into walls, doors or furniture. Classic violent male behaviour--implication is to the woman victim, "next time it could be you I'm hitting". I have been in same situation as OP with ex-neighbours and did call the police. Over an hour later(!) the police strolled leisurely up their path but by then it had all calmed down. Turned out that this lot of neighbours were on the Social Services 'at risk' list and received regular visits. Police and SS were only interested in the welfare of the 3 children in the house, going by the questions they asked me.

There does seem to be an underlying attitude in this country not to interfere in other people’s relationships - even when we fear things are horribly wrong. There is the idea that we must have proof before we go down the road of reporting - we want to see injuries, we want to hear blood curdling screams. For me the deciding factor is the fact that there are young children in the house. If you listened to an argument and as an adult it made your heart beat faster or you felt anxiety listening to it what do you think a child listening to their own parents must be feeling ( assuming the child is not the target). How would you respond to a child stealing food off your bird table? Would you consider that “ proof “ enough for you to report or do you need to see more evidence of neglect. But this is was happened with one child neglect case where the child starved to death. What about bruises on a child? How bad do bruises need to be before you get involved - of course everyone hits their child right? Never did me any harm. So, although we don’t really know what happened we know the noises were alarming and we know children live at the address. Maybe call the police and say “ I’m a bit worried - this is what I’ve heard - it’s a bit frightening sounding and children are in there”. If we’re lucky police will be free to attend and will insist on seeing everyone in the house to make sure they’re ok ( it’s been a long time since my force area refused to get involved in “ domestics “). If no offences are obvious and everyone is well then in all likelihood a brief record will be made which will be shared with SS. Are SS going to rock up at the house? Probably not but at least the children are known. If police are called to another incident down the line they will know.... and as incidents continue to be reported the information is used to help the professionals make an informed decision about what needs to be done. You don’t need to be sure about anything you just need to be concerned.

Police officer here...always call it in.

Just because you haven't heard the children doesn't mean they are not sat there watching every bit of it. I've been to calls/seen footage where the children don't even flinch when their mother us being beaten to within an inch of her life because they are used to it.

And @Augusta, we don't just turn up and remove kids, unless in very rare and dire circumstances. What I do say to victims is that they must remove themselves from this domestic violence situation; if not you are risking your kids being taken into care for their safety.

Op, let the police decide.

I have been in a situation where calls to the police to report anything and everything were used as a form of harassment because of someone’s extreme anxiety. It can cause huge problems for people’s work, for being screened for jobs, getting visas for the USA, with your kids and SS. It really isn’t just something that has no impact as long as a crime isn’t happening. It still does.

Presumably it wouldn't cause any problems if the person wasn't charged with anything though @Augusta2012.

Having said that, I'd think my neighbours were complete and utter busybodies for calling the police as a first resort over me rowing with DH - if they could hear me, I'd expect them to bang on the wall, call out or have a chat with me over the fence before taking such a drastic step.

Who bloody cares about what your neighbors think of you more than caring for the safety and wellbeing of other humans?! What a vile attitude

Thank you @weekendninja for commenting and informing us what the police themselves would prefer we do!

If it’s at the level where you’re concerned for someone’s safety, if the banging sounds like things being hit or thrown ect, phone 999.

I’m a police call handler and that kind of call would be on an immediate response grade as someone could be at risk of harm. The banging ect makes it sound like possible violence not just a verbal row

I rang the police a number of times (999) when this was happening with the neighbours. The police were incredibly discreet and arrests were made. There were no kids at the address.

The police were very clear that I shouldn't be scared in my own home - and told me to always call 999 if they kicked off, as it was better to prevent a serious incident if possible.

The dull thuds I was hearing were her throwing him against the wall.

As it's Housing Association property, police informed the landlord who was able to get some support in place for the couple. Things were infinitely better for them after intervention and this then made it better for me.

Well if it makes you feel better I’m a police officer and worked in child protection for a number of years.

I thought the law had been changed so that the police can prosecute DV cases even if the woman doesn't want to press charges?

Every person who claims to work for the police or have relatives in the police etc has said

Call in

None of them have said - you must be sure first... Or worry about pissing off new neighbors first

Of all the things MNers should not waste police time with- this wasn't one of them!

There’s actually a campaign to get people to report more DV in Ireland, where you see someone over hear just that, someone shouting and bangs. That’s it, no proof of violence, no screams, no saying don’t hurt me. No evidence at all of someone being hit.

But the signs... the red flags.

The ad campaign is saying - report it - don’t join the silence.

This is a police and social services backed campaign. They want people to speak up, even if they are not 100% sure.

Exactly what the OP has described could have been in the advert. The advice? Report it.

My father has had people calling because someone's neighbours cat kept shitting in their garden (I kid you not)... That is a waste of police time.

This is not. It doesn't matter if nothing comes of it. It is not a waste of their time.