To ask what you would do? Neighbours arguing

[TheDeuteragonist]

We have just moved into a new house.

Haven't met the neighbours yet but seen them in passing and smiled and said hello.

I've been working late tonight and decided to have a clean when I'd finished.

Was listening to a ghost story podcast and heard banging. Sounded like it was coming from upstairs.

Went up to check on DD, thought she'd fallen out of bed but she was fine. Came back down and heard banging again, felt like it made the ceiling shake.

Went up again and sat on the landing and deduced it was coming from next door. Pressed my ear to the wall and it's the neighbours arguing. Well, more like the man shouting. Lots of banging going on. I couldn't hear the woman at all.

I know there are kids in the house, 2 young ones.

DP works nights so I text him basically not really knowing what to do. He says to stay out of it but the banging really scared me as I couldn't place what it was (I.e not doors being slammed).

I asked DP if I should call the police but he says not too. How would I feel if someone called the police when we argued? I responded that we shout sometimes (rarely) but we never make that level of noise with it and there's usually two voices shouting.

I really don't know what to do. I'm home alone with DD so don't really wanna knock on and look nosy but I don't want to sit idly by while something bad happens to someone.

What would you do?

My neighbour regularly used to throw his partner down the stairs, despite her screaming for him to stop. We called the police several times but they wouldn't help because they refused to get involved in a 'domestic'. The couple moved out when she became pregnant and I often wonder what happened to them as it was horrifying being unable to help in any way and I'd be so happy to hear if she managed to get away from him. I wouldn't hesitate to call the police in your situation OP. Perhaps these things are taken more seriously if there are children in the house?

Police now attend domestic incidents at least within 24 hours. Even when I've had to inform of very minor things with my ex but instructed to by my solicitor, they insist on coming out and physically seeing that myself and my child are safe. They are much much better at handling DV than they used to be!

I've also been the victim furious that people have been "busybodies" and won't keep their nose out- but in hindsight once I was out of the situation... they were doing a better job than I was able to at the time of safeguarding my child and probably contributed to the fact that I am still able to raise my child and didn't have him removed. What he witnessed was completely unacceptable and I have had a tough journey to acknowledge the harm inflicted on him by witnessing things he should never have had to. I can't take it back... but I can acknowledge it, regret it and I know again that if I am ever in that situation the effects on a child last years after the incident is over that I would probably leave long before things could escalate to shouting matches or physical abuse of a property or person.

Did you see the lady leave the house on the school run this morning OP? Did she seem ok?

Look, this is MN and loads of people on here jump to the conclusion it is domestic violence. And people on here always tell you to call the police.

But if all you heard was generalised shouting, which wasn’t even loud enough for you to hear without putting your ear to the wall, I think that’s a conclusion too far to jump to.

My next door neighbours come home late and drunk then slam the door and are noisy with their mates while the kids are at their grandparents.

You don’t even seem to be certain if the wife was in the house. Could you hear what he was saying? Are you sure it wasn’t more than one man and doors slamming? You couldn’t hear it without your ear to the wall, so it doesn’t sound like bloodcurdling yelling, just raised voices.

Shouting and banging on a weekend night does not necessarily equal DV. Unless you could hear what he was saying or you see the wife with injuries I wouldn’t call the police. You need to have way more info than this, otherwise you might be calling the police on an innocent family, including SS involvement because the Dad came back from the pub noisily.

I live in a terrace. I can hear people come back and make noises exactly like this several times a month (they probably hear from me too about the same amount) and I know for definite it’s not DV. And I think unless you’re sure what you are hearing you are in danger of putting yourself in a tit for tat situation. Because if they hear you having a row or coming back from the pub noisily, they’ll do exactly the same back to you.

This is awful, it’s so tough to know what the right thing to do is.
I could be completely wrong and obviously I wasn’t in your house to hear. But, my next door neighbour often bangs loudly and slams doors for things like my washing mashine being on or my hoovering etc (I think he lives in silence).
Was your cleaning/ ghost story quite loud late at night or something?
Sometimes I hear shouting too and I’m not sure if it’s aimed at me and my kids or his wife? But there is a wall between us so to be honest I couldn’t care if it was aimed at me. (I hope it’s not his poor wife!)

I hope you don’t hear anything else

I would agree with calling the police. If it's only one raised angry voice and banging it isn't a normal argument.

@Dongdingdong I think if you're arguing during the night and banging so loud that your neighbor fears for your safety then you need to get a bit more respect for the people living around you. I'd be nothing but embarrassed and apologetic towards my neighbor not 'fuming'. If it's not a domestic violence situation of course.

I've been in a DV situation as a woman where I really was being abused and people told me afterwards that they 'nearly called the police a few times'. I remember thinking every time it happened, every time I was pinned against the wall or having things thrown at my head (which would cause banging) 'please please please someone call the police before he hurts me'.

Sorry but I'd always rather be safe than sorry now. I'd rather my neighbor be a bit miffed (and hopefully ashamed for causing such a nuisance) than someone be killed/hurt because I thought 'its only once and it's the privacy of their own home'.

I would keep eye (or ear) out for a little longer and if it persists consider reporting it.

We had this almost immediately after we moved into our house (but no banging and both male/female voices). DH and I agreed to wait and see how it went and we have never once heard them argue again (in 4 years). Really nice couple actually.

At a previous house we had similar, but it was the female who was the aggressor and there was bangs, smashing furniture and a small child in attendance (also being screamed at). I called 999 every time as I was frightened for the child's safety/mental health.

Two very different situations leading to two very different courses of action. Only you can hear it to judge where the line is between a disagreement or abuse.

dongding, absolutely. She doesn’t even know if the wife was there. The banging could well be door slamming.

Couples do sometimes shout at each other. Without any sort of corroborating behaviour (which will come quickly if your neighbours) it would be totally overstepping the mark. How would you feel OP, if you had a row or came back from the pub a bit noisily and SS and the police turned up threatening to take away your children?

The most I would do is see if there was someone at the children’s school or nursery I could speak to just to see if there was anything that might corroborate it.

But if you’re going to ring the police every time someone next door raises their voice or slams the door then you have to be prepared to have the police and social services on your doorstep any time you raise your voice or slam a door too.

Definitely call the police / 101 next time. But also log the time, date and what’s happened tonight. Keep an eye out. It’s quite important to be a little nosey, it can only do good. You are not spreading malicious rumours or invading anyone’s privacy.

Think about it. If you are wrong:
No harm done at all.

If you are right:
The victim has a record of police being called. Could really help in future custody / getting women’s aid or support.
It could give the victim a wake up call, she might have been minimalising it, often happens. She might now act.
You could be saving a life / childhood of abuse.

Are you reading the same thread as everyone else @Augusta2012 ?

The OP states clearly the neighbours were arguing and causing a racket. That in itself is enough reason for the OP to call 101, right? It’s anti social behaviour.

But the fact they were definitely arguing and banging about means it’s likely to have been heated, causing distress to their children and leaving the OP no clue as to how far it would escalate or go on for.

So DV or no DV the OP would be 1000% doing the right thing to call 101.

And if it is DV then a noise abatement complaint could be the difference between the woman (or man) getting quite frankly killed.

The most I would do is see if there was someone at the children’s school or nursery I could speak to just to see if there was anything that might corroborate it

How is speaking to the child's school any less intrusive than calling the police?

You know the worst that can happen by calling the police?

They investigate. They may investigate and find all is well. That would be their preference to find. They are the ones with the training and authority to decide if anything further needs to happen.

The worst that can happen if the police make a merlin report and social services are informed? SS investigate. It's a pita if actually all is fine to have SS investigate but though it can be traumatic, and inconvenient- if no concerns are found, they will close the case VERY quickly to get on with responding to the cases where concerns need acting on fast.

Children are only removed there and then on a first callout by the police if they are deemed to be in immediate danger. And that is traumatic but not permanent either.

How would you feel OP, if you had a row or came back from the pub a bit noisily and SS and the police turned up threatening to take away your children?

errrr The police don't turn up at your door and take away your children on the basis of one phone call from a neighbour. It's not the OP's place to conduct an investigation. If she's heard something that worries her she should report it and if it's nothing nothing will come of it.

Also, in terms of people saying oh it’s just an argument. Maybe it was. Maybe no one got hurt.

However if you were alarmed and a bit frightened OP. How much a child feel?

SS are not going to take the children away with one call. The police aren’t going to be cross, they’ve seen victims of DV.

Absolutely better be safe than sorry. Even if you just wait until next time and keep an eye.

Also there is a difference between a neighbor being a bit heavy handed with a door every now and then and lots of banging which shakes your ceiling whilst shouting at someone.

@Dongdingdong I think if you're arguing during the night and banging so loud that your neighbor fears for your safety then you need to get a bit more respect for the people living around you. I'd be nothing but embarrassed and apologetic towards my neighbor not 'fuming'. If it's not a domestic violence situation of course.

So if you had moved into a new house and the very first time you heard your neighbours making a racket late at night, you'd immediately call the police rather than banging on the wall, calling out to ask them to keep it down or mentioning in passing that the walls are a little bit thin and you could hear them the other night?

To me that's a massive overreaction over what could very well be a one-off occurrence. Like I said, if the OP finds out that it does happen regularly then of course she should take action, but not over what is at the moment a one-off incident. If she was certain that it was a DV situation then she should also call the police (obviously) but in this instance she's far from sure by the sounds of it. How long have you been in the house OP?

Sorry to hear that you were in that situation by the way @SushiRolll

The OP states clearly the neighbours were arguing and causing a racket. That in itself is enough reason for the OP to call 101, right? It’s anti social behaviour.

No, she said that she could hear a man shouting and she assumed he was arguing with his wife. She doesn’t even know if the wife was there. She couldn’t even hear it unless she pressed her ear to the wall, so I doubt very much she could actually hear what he was saying.

Banging can be doors slamming, people knocking on the door drunkenly.

I don’t know what planet people live in where their neighbour being a bit drunkenly noisy for two weeks before Xmas is a reasonable cause to phone the police.

I’m half convinced all the problems our police force have with being overstretches is because they’re so tied up with hysterical mumsnetters phoning them every time somebody looks at them a bit funny or slams a door or raises their voice.

Also there is a difference between a neighbor being a bit heavy handed with a door every now and then and lots of banging which shakes your ceiling whilst shouting at someone.

Come on. That could blatantly be a group coming back from the pub noisily. It’s two weeks before Christmas, that would be my first thought, it was a group coming back from an office party.

Don’t get the ‘oh it’s only one incident’ at all. So even if it could have been violence because the OP did not know for sure she would have been out of order for calling?

It’s the polices job to determine what happened. Not us. It’s our job to look out for each other by reporting what we think might be a crime / harm. It’s that simple.

It’s like people being mugged / beaten up and saying how many people just walked passed, no one called the police. Minimalizing it or thinking to themselves it’s just a bit of a fight.

@Dongdingdong to be honest, maybe because of my experiences, yes. I probably would call 101 and let them know. Especially if it was very late at night and I knew there were young children in the house.

I have never had an argument with my now DP which would cause loud banging at midnight causing my neighbors ceiling to shake. Surely that isn't how normal, adult people argue? And yes I'd find it concerning.

The problem with just 'leaving it until you see her in the hall the next day' is what if you don't get that opportunity because something happened?

There's no harm in just calling 101 to report it. The least that could happen is it's nothing and the neighbors are a bit more respectful of others in the future.

Look, this is MN and loads of people on here jump to the conclusion it is domestic violence. And people on here always tell you to call the police.

You've clearly completely missed the point. Literally no one has jumped to the conclusion it's DV they've jumped to the conclusion that if the OP felt scared by the noise it might be DV. OP isn't going to conduct a trial and decide once and for all exactly what is going on. If you're worried you call 101 and they can investigate if it's a simple row then they're not going to do anything at all.

It's funny how people can be so certain that it's just a drunk man yelling and banging doors at midnight

But so unsure it's a DV situation

Let's say it is just a drunk man yelling into thin air and banging doors... the police turn up and discover that and request he keeps it down as it's noise disturbance...

Or it's someone who is having a mental health crisis and they turn up and see that the individual is supported and safeguarded themselves...

Or it's someone stupid enough to angrily DIY at night and they get asked to stop

The police would much rather find out all is okay. And they have systems to prioritise the calls they get on any given night - if they're attending more urgent incidents... this one would be downgraded. Let the police and call handlers do the risk assessment...

Pressed my ear to the wall and it's the neighbours arguing

The OP has seen the neighbours and know they are a man and a woman so it’s completely correct for her to deduce that the neighbours arguing means the man and the woman that live in that house.

Whilst she could obviously hear the man more (unless there’s serious MH issues there) usually someone shouting, banging and scaring the neighbours usually equates to
a) someone else being there to be on the receiving end and
b) an actual fucking argument

Either way it was enough to scare the OP so I can only conclude you’re being deliberately obtuse @Augusta2012