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Original poster

To sack someone due to 'bad cultural fit'

127 replies

aveleila · 09/12/2018 13:22

So I work in a field that is notoriously difficult to recruit. So I was delighted to find someone who seemed perfect for the job and had excellent qualifications.
All started well, she settled into the team with effortless ease. Within a month or two she started gossiping that the team had too much work and that she had been given too much work. She struggled with the pace of the job ( lots of concrete examples).

She seemed to work it out after about 4 months but her presence has simply disrupted what has always been a friendly, professional team who work well with each other.

On the same floor she has made friends with people from a different department and seems to have fitted in great with them.

She never speaks to me, not even to say hello or goodbye. If she wants authorisation for something it is always through email. She makes all decisions without speaking to me and if she needs advice it's always the medical team not me she goes to.

I have had to bring up with her errors she has made on a pretty much daily basis. To begin with I put it down to her being new. However now I know she is competent and capable but just lazy and doesn't feel the need for very high standards of work.

I overheard her gossiping about me to colleagues saying 'I literally come in each day wondering what I will get told off for today. If she does not stop I am leaving and good job trying to recruit for my position when I have gone'.

She is passing me off as a bully when all I have done is challenge lazy behaviour.

The final straw is now she is lying about completing tasks she hasn't done. Claiming she has checked equipment she couldn't have as they were locked in a different building.

She has depression and I am worried about being accused of being heartless but she is disrupting the office environment. A few team members have complained about her work ethic and I don't feel like I can trust her due to previous false claims from her.

I'm now at the stage where I can't even stand to give her a friendly smile and I really don't want to end up accused of bullying.

Sorry for ranting on, but this is the first time I have ever been in this situation. Would the things I have mentioned here be enough for her to fail her 6 months probation?

Her 5 month review is coming up and I know I have to give her a chance to improve but I really just want her out of the company at this point.

OP posts:
maddiemookins16mum · 09/12/2018 13:25

You need to speak with HR, a random bunch of strangers on MN can’t answer a complicated employment issue with possible legal implications.

StealthPolarBear · 09/12/2018 13:28

She's been there less than two years and sounds like a trouble maker. Are you her manager?

IamSusan · 09/12/2018 13:28

she is like this DURING her probation, good luck when she is safe in the job.

Take the gossip and attitude out, make a list of the facts, the errors and so on. That's more than enough not to go through a probation period. If she cannot make the smallest effort now, she is taking the piss and will end up giving you more work and unpleasantness. If you are a professional, you are responsible for the work and your whole team, get rid of immediately
Just pop in HR to discuss how to do it properly, with the long lists of errors and proof she has been unsuitable for the job required.

Original poster
aveleila · 09/12/2018 13:28

I'm talking in the general sense. These kinds of concerns. Are they generally in most cases enough to sack someone?

I've been told by HR they are as dishonesty is against the job policy. However I don't fully trust them.

Also looking for opinions generally on how to deal with such a colleague. I'm not looking for any legal advice.

OP posts:
TooTrueToBeGood · 09/12/2018 13:29

You'd be far better discussing it with your HR dept than on here but personally i would find whatever reason needed to put her out the door. She doesn't respect you as her manager, she underperforms snd she's disruptive. If this is her during probation she'll be twice as bad when she feels more established.

LIVIA999 · 09/12/2018 13:29

I had a member of staff who was similar, her work just kept getting worse and worse and I'd bring her up on it and she would get upset.
She kept asking to take unpaid leave which I did authorise a few times but her work load was piling up.
Eventually I lost my temper ( I didn't shout ) and said that there was no more unpaid leave. She had a massive strop and went off on sick. I found out later that she was trying to find out about taking me for constructive dismissal.
In the case of my company she had only been there 18 months so had no case as you can't before 2 years. Had she been there over two years I have no doubt she would have tried. I can't imagine it would have been successful, mostly because it didn't happen.
If the warning signs are there already I would make sure that I extended her probation period. If there are issues later then at least you have evidence to show you have tried to help her.
That's if you even want to keep her on. You are under no obligation if she isn't doing her work.

GaraMedouar · 09/12/2018 13:31

I agree, speak to HR. Sounds like you need to sort quickly before her probation period is up.

Liverpool1944 · 09/12/2018 13:31

You sound like you've been managing her terribly. And seem to be trying to establish if you have enough to get rid of her or if you need more intel. 'I know I have to give her a chance to improve.' clearly you don't want to

SeaViewBliss · 09/12/2018 13:31

I agree with Susan forget about the gossiping and sniping. Keep records of every error/missed task and start performance management. Keep it factual and set clear targets for improvement.

testetesting · 09/12/2018 13:32

It sounds like you aren't up to the role.

Are you supposed to be managing her? You clearly aren't.

Most of your post comes across as a slightly more eloquent version of things I hear every day working in a Prep School.

Original poster
aveleila · 09/12/2018 13:32

I feel she is going to be a nightmare. She's never been in a job longer than a year.

The little errors she makes are not the issue. We all make mistakes when new but she is exhibiting lazy behaviour and also gossiping about me to work colleagues which creates a bad atmosphere. I get the impression she just wants to work independently without a manager and without being part of a team.

It's a shame as I actually think she has the academic ability.

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 09/12/2018 13:35

You need to get rid of her ASAP. The longer she is there the harder it will be to get rid of her. Have her in for a meeting with HR. Tell her you are firing her for lying. Wash your hands of her. Your respiration is a red herring. Your job is to make sure that all the employees under you are performing well and happy (which isn’t possible when you have someone like that in the team) not to be little miss sympathetic. If anything my cynical side would think that her behaviour towards you suggests that she may be gearing up to sue you if she gets fired. Don’t let it get that far.

Original poster
aveleila · 09/12/2018 13:38

I think there have been errors on my part. I don't think she had enough training to begin with and I expected too much of her.

However, it is not her natural ability and knowledge that is the issue as she has now clearly learnt the job but she continues to make lazy mistakes. She gossips a lot and generally complains about the team and workload.

Lying about completing tasks is shocking. I don't get the impression that she is going to get worse once she has passed probation. I don't think she cares if she passes or not. She knows she can get a job elsewhere.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 09/12/2018 13:38

The two examples you gave of 'gossip' are not gossip at all. Especially not this one.... Within a month or two she started gossiping that the team had too much work and that she had been given too much work. She struggled with the pace of the job ( lots of concrete examples).

Surely everyone moans about the pace of their job when they're having trouble keeping up?

As for starting a thread about her on the internet instead of talking to HR or your own line manager, well I'm glad mine is a lot more professional.

You sound as though you're struggling with your job yourself, if you've had to resort to this.

PragmaticWench · 09/12/2018 13:39

I'd discuss with HR about putting her onto two-weekly performance reviews, combined with an extension of the probation period. That is if the lying about tasks being completed isn't enough to get rid of her straight away, which it might be during probation?

As for how you deal with her, keep it professional and calm, do make sure to say hello etc. even if she doesn't.

BoffinMum · 09/12/2018 13:44

Written warning about the lying and anything else easily proven?

BerylStreep · 09/12/2018 13:45

I think the OP is being given a hard time for posting a thread about this. Why shouldn't she seek views on an anonymous thread on an issue that is sufficiently vague?

And to say that she doesn't seem up to the job to deal with this? Well maybe she hasn't had to deal with this sort of issue before. We don't all walk into management with a full set of skills and experience to manage every situation.

Milly848 · 09/12/2018 13:46

Have you discussed these things with her in her reviews? If not, it would be bad management to suddenly sack her without warnings

MaisyPops · 09/12/2018 13:47

Complaining about work is petty and you'd be wrong to take it further.

Not doing her job properly and lying is a bigger issue and if be saying they are grounds for not passing probation. In my experience people who do a poor probation, don't do their job properly, lie and stir in the workplace never improve after their probation. They simply decide they are untouchable and their poor attitude and poor work kills the morale of others who are doing what they need to.

IamSusan · 09/12/2018 13:48

You spend more time with your co-workers than you do with your partner. Why on earth would you chose to keep someone that you don't get on with when you can still get rid of?
It's a workplace, no one has time to deal with gossips and immature behaviour. You don't need to waste any with performance meetings and warnings, I would check on how to let go asap.
She will moan before it's before Christmas, but if she did care about her job, she would have a decent attitude. Nothing in the law makes any difference between December and any other month

IamSusan · 09/12/2018 13:49

it would be bad management to suddenly sack her without warnings

during probation, you can get rid of people at any time (might be a week notice written in the contract).

VimFuego101 · 09/12/2018 13:50

If you are considering getting rid of her/extending probation, you need a watertight paper trail - keep a diary of every issue, and make sure HR is aware and backing you up.

Athena51 · 09/12/2018 13:52

I've worked in places were people who were basically rubbish have been allowed to get through their probation period despite clearly being unsuitable (and not as bad as your example) because managers wouldn't take charge and actually manage the situation.

In one case the person took months to be managed out, went sick and got a payout because they were a massive PITA. All that could have been avoided if someone had the courage to deal with it in the first 6 months.

Tackle it, give her the chance to improve (is there an option to extend probation?) if not, get rid.

Milly848 · 09/12/2018 13:52

@IamSusan yes I know you legally can, but most places wouldn't sack someone without giving them some sort of warning and telling them they need to improve. It would reflect badly on the company.

Also, even during probation, companies need to have evidence to back up their actions. Not doing so would leave them open to a possible discrimination case, which can happen even during probation

JassyRadlett · 09/12/2018 13:55

She gossips a lot and generally complains about the team and workload.

How have you addressed this and the other behavioural issues you’ve had?

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