to wonder if people shouldn't call their own kids ugly?

[DarcieStarlight]

I was at a friends house having a coffee the other day and a bit of a catch up. She's a good friend of mine and she has a great sense of humour which is why I thought the following was her just being daft.
I commented on how cute her 4yo girls hair looked up in a little bun with a bow in.
Her reply was "well I've got to make an effort somehow she's not exactly a good looking kid is she?" I laughed because I thought she was joking and then asked her if she was being serious. She said yes. She also has a 1yo girl and said that her toddler is extremely cute but the older child not so much. She said she hopes that it's a case of the ugly duckling story and she grows up to be attractive but at the moment she doesn't think she is pretty.
I've never, ever, ever heard a parent think their own child isn't cute before.
Is it ever ok to think your own children are ugly? Or any children in general?

No! It's horrible. It's going to hurt that little girls self esteem.

Poor little girl.

no-one should call anyone ugly ever even if they think it is true

Jesus Cristo that's horrific.

And so the 'golden child' attitude starts that young...

I'm afraid the mother would be an ex-friend.

I don't have any children yet (unfortunately) but I was always told that when your child is born you love them unconditionally and think they are the most beautiful thing you have ever seen. This is why I was quite taken aback as she really meant it too. I did feel sorry for her little girl she's such a good kid aswell, really bright and funny and I do actually think she's cute. She said it right in front of her so I agree with someone else above about her child's self esteem being shot to bits.

My son is gorgeous now but he was an ugly baby!

The difference is, I didn't see it then at all. How sad for the little girl.

Lovely friend you have there. I had an acquaintance who commented on my DD being pretty when she was a toddler and I replied, 'thank you, she is very cute, yes but I suppose I am bias and everybody thinks that about their own child.' She replied 'do they? I don't think that about Zoe(her daughter).' This was in front of the 5 year old DD at the time. She was a bit of an attention seeker though, desperate to be seen as cool/alternative so I think she was saying it to shock me but it had the consequence of hurting her child's feelings.

She isn't calling her ugly - you don't mention the DD being present at all let alone within earshot. She's describing her looks dispassionately to someone she believed was a friend. She might not have expected you to publish about it on the internet, or use stronger words than you report her to have done.

Btw, beautiful and good looking are not synonyms.

I'll admit that I've seen some real ugly ducklings in my time but my own children? Never.

One of my children is not particularly cute or good looking. It’s just a fact. My other DC is far more conventionally attractive.

However, I love the very bones of that boy. He is kind, funny, bright, great at drama, a natural sportsman and very musical. A classic high achieving good all rounder. He is lovely to younger children and has stepped in to stop bullying in his class
He is popular with his class and teachers. And he is such a great kid. I could not be prouder of him.

But he’s not ‘a looker’ at the moment. I tell him he’s gorgeous and wonderful. But I think that expecting people to think that their child is beautiful is misguided. And a bit superficial.

I love my children unconditionally. That doesn’t mean that I blind. As it stands they are both quite good looking but they have other flaws (which are obviously more important than looks) which I am trying to address. Good parents are able to see their children objective in order to help them become the best they can be rather than failing by acting on the assumption that they are perfect. I know what your friend said doesn’t sound nice but (bring a bit shallow and stupid) she is probably a bit worried for her daughter.

RoseAndRose " you don't mention the DD being present at all let alone within earshot."

The OP said "She said it right in front of her so I agree with someone else above about her child's self esteem being shot to bits."

I agree with RoseandRose actually. It doesn’t sound like the friend used the word ugly at all about her daughter. She quoted the ugly duckling story but that’s not the same as calling her daughter ugly.

Erm no. That’s not nice at all. Her child only needs to hear that once and it will stick with her.

I think I’m unusually objective about my DC.

One of them was a truly awful looking baby - baby acne, odd shaped head, multiple chins. I wish I could’ve seen her as beautiful but I didn’t. Age 3, she’s cute looking, not as pretty as some but prettier than others.
🤷‍♀️

However I would never ever say anything other than positive about her looks within her earshot. That’s the horrible bit.

I was an unfortunate looking small child but my younger sister was very pretty. Our mother always told me I was gorgeous but at about 5 a friend of the family who'd never met us before commented pityingly about me in front of us, and that stayed with me for a long time. Fwiw I turned into a good- looking adult whilst my sister peaked at about 16, but I don't think the child's own mother should say things like that in her hearing, so damaging. Girls also hear all about their looks very early whereas boys' strength and agility (tends to) get commented on instead. And that's not right either.

My DC1 was a really unattractive squished face baby and both DH and I could see he wasn't cute at all and joked about it to people. He's adorable now though. I suppose the issue is that the little girl is old enough to hear and understand her mother's words which will cut deeply and possibly cause self-esteem issues in the future. Can you say to your friend that you worry her DD will take on board such comments and she should be kinder?

So, so sad.

That little girl is 4 and she has a lifetime to grow up and discover how hard life can be, how difficult some situations are, how nasty some people can be.

Right now, she doesn't need to worry about that - she just needs to know that there are adults who love her unconditionally, think she is simply wonderful (not necessarily everything she actively decides to do, mind) and will fight and defend her to the death if necessary.

Assuming she is normally a nice person and somebody you want to stay friends with, I'd have a quiet word with her about how children build confidence and need their parents as their unswerving advocates, especially while they are little - and how this can very easily lead to serious lifelong confidence issues and the breakdown of family relations. Find a few MN relevant threads to show her, if that helps - you won't have far to look to find them.

Accepting that your child may not be particularly stand-out pretty is one thing, although you still wouldn't vocalise it; and you would reassure your child that they are beautiful, special and important as a whole unique person and particularly emphasise their best qualities and characteristics - but I can't imagine even thinking your own child is 'ugly' - much less say it to other people. Poor girl.

I would say that the Op's friend saying this, 'well I've got to make an effort somehow she's not exactly a good-looking kid is she?' is pretty shallow actually. It doesn't exactly sound like the person doesn't think looks are important, if that was the case no effort would need to be made at all. It's very cutting and comparing her to the pretty sister is just awful.

It's an interesting thing about the extent to which we tie up worth with attractiveness, isn't it, that we all think she shouldn't even think it. I don't think anyone would raise the same objection to somebody saying that one of their children was brighter than the other or sportier or funnier. I don't actually think there's anything wrong with thinking it, as long as she doesn't mean 'I love the cuter one more', but I definitely don't think she should say it in front of either of her children.

I think that expecting people to think that their child is beautiful is misguided. And a bit superficial.

Assuming that you're using the word 'beautiful' here in a very limited sense of merely referring to physical attractiveness: nobody is saying you have to think your child is beautiful - you just don't go around vocalising it in public if you think the exact opposite.

You wouldn't just throw it into casual conversation about a grown adult - e.g. "That's a lovely painting - is it new?." "Yes, my sister bought it for me for my birthday - she's a very kind and generous person and has a really good eye for art. Shame she's a real minger to look at, though." - so why would anybody think to do it about a young child - their own child even?

I wouldn’t say that to or about my own children, that’s horrible. I wouldn’t say it to anyone out loud either but of course I have seen some ugly children. Not everyone can be good looking I’m no bloody oil painting myself.

I thought my babies were gorgeous when they were just born but years later looking at them objectively I can see they were a bit squashed and blotchy

When I was 5 I heard my mum saying to a friend that it was 'just as well she's clever enough to be able to get a good career and support herself because no man will ever marry a girl so ugly'. Over 60 years later the body image problems are still sometimes crippling.

It's a despicable thing to say in the hearing of a child, even if you think it's out of earshot. Completely unforgivable.

This is horrible, that poor little girl. There’s a huge difference between not giving a child an unrealistic idea that they are stunningly beautiful when they aren’t and not criticising their looks in front of them and others...why not just accept the compliment you gave and not comment negatively on her daughter? Nasty woman.

My mother never made positive comments on my looks as a child but lots of other people did and I was frequently scouted by model agencies, strangers stopped me in the street to tell me I was pretty or beautiful etc and say “you must be so proud” to my parents (isn’t that a ridiculous thing to say about a child’s looks btw?). My mum criticised me all the time and frequently weighed me, put me on diets from aged 7 or 8 etc, made nasty comments about my hair or teeth etc. I grew up with body dysmporphia and thought I was hideous. I darent look at a boy or man until I was in my late 20s, I just thought I was too ugly to want.

I’d never do that to a child. Neither would I obsess over their looks, good or bad. I’d want them to grow up as non self conscious as humanly possible. To me that means NEVER criticising their looks nor constantly telling them they are pretty etc.

Oddly my mum has on several occasions this year spontaneously told me “You are so beautiful, you know. I am proud of you.”

Ironic given the fact I’ve gained 2 stone, I’m now mid-30s and past my best and genuinely don’t need her approval or give a fuck anymore 🙄.

Part of me is like “who is this woman?”