To think that women don't just need to try a bit harder in order to beat men at sport?

[SportySpice18]

From this Woman's Hour clip:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06tmhr3

The first interviewee is arguing that initially transwomen (ie males who identify as being women) should compete in women's sport (which is already happening) but that ultimately single-sex sports should be abolished and sport should become gender neutral. This would mean all men competing against women (if any women qualify) and sports teams not just being mixed sex but not taking into account sex differences (e.g. at the moment a mixed-sex sports team normally has to have 50% women playing but in 'gender neutral' sports, the strongest players would be selected, irrespective of their sex.)

The argument put forward is that women only perform at a lower level than men in sport because we psychologically cap our performance and don't try as hard as men.

AIBU to think that this is a load of old b and will result in women missing out on the opportunity to play fair, competitive sport? Women in sports, particularly at the top level, work their a off and display incredible determination and skill - but they cannot outpower men.

Men have longer limbs, greater lung capacity, bigger muscles and a different shaped pelvis (shaped for efficient movement rather than childbirth) to name but a few differences. I play sports and, when I've played (socially) against men the sheer power can be overwhelming even when they are technically a less skilled player.

Surely, it is obvious that refusing to acknowledge physical sex differences, far from being open-minded and progressive, is massively detrimental to women?

Any athletics event that is not a sprint

Yeah- those women throwing discus, javelin, hammer, doing. Pole vault, high jump etc are just being lazy - if they cracked on a bit and put the effort in they could easily compete with the men

Can sailing be unisex?

I think women can struggle in F1 due to neck and shoulder strength needed. Or so DH tells me.

We're ignoring marathons and long distance running then?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blog.chartio.com/posts/distance-running-and-its-closing-gender-gap%3fformat=amp

m.startribune.com/how-women-closed-the-twin-cities-marathon-gender-gap-and-other-runner-stats/395009431/

And this article from far back in history (2010) explaining how it can't happen owing the gender differences and that women need maths to make it fair

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11400138

Dinghy sailing is helped by the weight of the sailer so yes it could be unisex but average size/weight women wouldn't be able to compete against men, so it would be something for men and big women

Does this theory cut both ways?

Will men's gymnastics be abolished so they can stop self-limiting and compete on the floor and beam against women?

Skiing??? Skiing relies heavily on strength- legs and core.

Yep, of course they do, you need to be fit and strong to do most sports, whether you're a man or a woman.

Surfing is the same

I just say this cos I've been pretty fucking good at some of the sports I mention and I'm 5' 50kg after a good meal and struggle with jam jars

Yeah- those women throwing discus, javelin, hammer, doing. Pole vault, high jump etc are just being lazy - if they cracked on a bit and put the effort in they could easily compete with the men

I should have said track

@easyandy101

If you can even afford to start the sport then you can't get to the skill level to take it to competition level. So while it is easy to afford to start running it is much harder to afford to be a rally driver.

Myself, family, friends and acquaintances take part in different sports and so I have an idea of which sports are cheaper to participate in.

Horse riding events are already unisex, so they're kinda irrelevant. Where strength matters, sport should stay single sex.

@ABitCrapper Sailing is unisex

F1 can be unisex. There have been women drivers at lower levels and in different motor sports

Yeah but we're talking about competition level sports aren't we rather than hobby sports

Traveling to compete and time commitment bars many many people of both sexes from top level sport regardless of what the initial uptake cost is

Men have been competing in sport much longer than women and their bodies has evolved to have an edge due to this. As a PP mentioned, the gap is now closing in events where women have historically been allowed to compete earlier ie long distance running. Woman are still behind in all the sports where this gap still exists ie football, or where the industry is sexist ie car racing.

Men and women competing in most sports together is unrealistic. Maybe in 30 years.

Maybe in 30 years

Are women going to evolve to be the same size, strength, lung capacity and have the same amount of testosterone as men in 30 years then?

Let's segregate by weight and height instead

In some sports women may have evolved to directly compete with men, yes. I haven’t specified any characteristics that would include

echt - I can't wait to read The Old Woman and the Sea

I play a lot of tennis, often mixed. The men are just stronger (on average) and have more power (upper body strength)

"Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[52] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager".[53][52] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[54] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[55] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun".[56] Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350"

My other half can deadlift double what I can. When I first hit over 100kg I was over the moon. That's what he warms up with. No amount of trying is going to change that. Maybe a fuckton of steroids and performance related drugs but I'd basically be transient

Men have been competing in sport much longer than women and their bodies has evolved to have an edge due to this

really? Up until very recently, the vast majority of the population would have had no time or inclination to indulge in sport expect at a rare event, only the wealthy would have had the opportunity. Are you really suggesting that there has been an evolutionary change in the past 150 years or so?

@easyandy101 it's not just about weight and height. The other biological differences are too great to make most sports unfair on women if unisex.

@easyandy101 testosterone, muscle mass, pelvis shape?

Not a scientist but ahem womens bodies can do another amazing thing that mens cannot so surely our bodies primed towards that whereas mens bodies are not weighed down by pesky breasts, uterus, extra fat, rounded pelvis etc

Unless sports science is wrong Ifailed

There is also a very legitimate theory that Caribbean athletes evolved to be powerful due to the natural selection that came with slavery.

But equestrian events already have women competing against men, so that's an irrelevant example.