To think that women don't just need to try a bit harder in order to beat men at sport?

[SportySpice18]

From this Woman's Hour clip:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06tmhr3

The first interviewee is arguing that initially transwomen (ie males who identify as being women) should compete in women's sport (which is already happening) but that ultimately single-sex sports should be abolished and sport should become gender neutral. This would mean all men competing against women (if any women qualify) and sports teams not just being mixed sex but not taking into account sex differences (e.g. at the moment a mixed-sex sports team normally has to have 50% women playing but in 'gender neutral' sports, the strongest players would be selected, irrespective of their sex.)

The argument put forward is that women only perform at a lower level than men in sport because we psychologically cap our performance and don't try as hard as men.

AIBU to think that this is a load of old b and will result in women missing out on the opportunity to play fair, competitive sport? Women in sports, particularly at the top level, work their a off and display incredible determination and skill - but they cannot outpower men.

Men have longer limbs, greater lung capacity, bigger muscles and a different shaped pelvis (shaped for efficient movement rather than childbirth) to name but a few differences. I play sports and, when I've played (socially) against men the sheer power can be overwhelming even when they are technically a less skilled player.

Surely, it is obvious that refusing to acknowledge physical sex differences, far from being open-minded and progressive, is massively detrimental to women?

I listened to this too and I was shouting "Bollocks!" at the radio. Absolute nonesense.

The world has gone bloody mad.

women only perform at a lower level than men in sport because we psychologically cap our performance and don't try as hard as men..

Oh for sure. The same way women could be taller (on average) like men are, if only we hadn’t internalised the idea that women tend to be shorter than men and thus stop growing too soon.

of course YANBU.

Competitive sport is the one area where there must be a distinction between men and women, due to actual, physical biological differences.

Not sure how it would work otherwise?

I seem to remember that a transwoman uttered the phrase "women, enjoy your erasure" or something like that, and sport might be an area where this actually comes true

Overall I think it's a stupid idea but I do believe that women (and society to an extent) cap their performance

There are tons of sports not reliant on power that men still rule at and there are plenty of high performing women with unfettered access to the sport they do who never go as far as men

I do think we should have segregated sports though, cos whether physical or psychological, the difference is clearly real and pronounced enough to warrant it

YANBU

We tried this at a school I used to work at. Mixed sporting events. Sadly the boys just dominated.

We got so dismayed with this macho display we tried to come up with ways in the staff room to somehow even it out or give the girls a starting advantage. In the end we just scrapped it as a potential minefield of controversy. (I prefer to host mixed academic events as girls nearly always win those!)

It's seriously frustrating that men seem to have that sporting advantage, but isn't it meant to be changing slowly? Aren't recent generations of men supposedly getting weaker or something? It will probably take decades though.

Argh such nonsense.

The world ATM is ridiculous. I'm glad I'm not growing up female in it to be sure.

Ah yes, cut and paste tits and a vag and we are physically identical . Different muscular skeletal structure; lung capacity as op have said.
Gender may well be "all in your head" but sex differences aren't.

just looked at the Olympic sports for 2020

tokyo2020.org/en/games/sport/olympic/

I would guess maybe archery, shooting and possibly equestrian events (coz its the horses, really, innit? ) might not rely as much on physical power?

so not really tons of sports

@BobTheDuvet F1, horse racing, eventing, dressage, darts, snooker, chess.

In these sports the power is due to a machine or animal or no significant power is needed at all but they are all very skill and intellectual based.

Could you give examples of sports which are not reliant on power please?

Long distance running. If trends continue on times then the gap between men and women is closing. Any athletics event that is not a sprint

Many many aspects of climbing will only be aided so far by strength and power. Not all though. But some of the best technical climbers are women and the level of strength required to excel in it is really achievable with a woman's physique

Snooker - stretching the definition a bit if sport in my eyes but a sport none the less, all cue sports really do not require any more strength than that which is easily achievable for anyone

Surfing

Skiing

Could you give examples of sports which are not reliant on power please

Dressage
Showjumping
Horseracing
Shooting
Fishing
I'd like to include synchronised swimming but its whorish, gurning, meretricious aspects prevents me.

@TanteRose - they are mostly very expensive sports to do and count out most of the population due to the cost.

Snooker is harder for women I think. Those tables are huge and men are on average taller and have a longer reach.

@TanteRose - they are mostly very expensive sports to do and count out most of the population due to the cost.

True of most things you end up taking to competition level

The main sports where women are equal to men are equestrian. The horse is the athlete and the rider the brains. I don’t think women need to try harder, we need men’s bodies in order to compete equally with them.

Testosterone increases hand eye coordination, it also makes people more competitive.

I heard this professor on r4 and thought it was some sort of spoof. You don’t need “research” to prove the difference between men and women’s sports capabilities - taking a few hormones doesn’t scratch the surface in equalising this.

I play a lot of tennis, often mixed. The men are just stronger (on average) and have more power (upper body strength)

Saying that, at 6ft I have a natural advantage over lots of other female tennis players, but even so, the height advantage vs other women is nothing compared to the advantage men of my age and ability have over me.

It's just a totally different ball game ()

Women's sport at a serious level should be for biological women only.

It should be divided by sex, not gender

Oh apparently motorcycle racing can be unisex. I thought it couldn't due to knowing the difficulties my friends of both sexes have if they unfortunately drop their bikes. However the bikes are held up for the riders.

Rally car driving and banger racing are other ones.

Surfing and skiing I would argue aren't unisex. Anyway skiing currently isn't.

Amy, not sure what your point is?
someone was asking what sports were not based on physical power?

financial support for sport is actually another big factor, because women's sport just does not get the big funding that men's sport does.

Current top 3 day eventers www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/page.aspx?section=886. Plenty of women, as relies on bravery, skill and planning to train a horse to do this. Not speed and strength.

So basically horse riding. I initially thought badminton but no. My sister is properly good played for county. Her dh barely plays but is strong and sporty. He beat her easily

Skiing??? Skiing relies heavily on strength- legs and core.
A bit like tennis- compare the best men and women there is a huge time difference.