To think there's little point taking on extra shifts at Christmas as it will mess up my benefits and I won't get any more money

[Ginzjam]

Sister thinks I'm being selfish not taking on the extra shifts at Christmas, but if I won't take home any more money and it will cause loads of Hassel affecting my benefits. I'm not saying it's right, but im right it's good business sense to refuse them?

I would do them if I ended up with a bit more money but I won't and I would be saving the company money as I'm mjuch cheaper than agency workers to cover the shifts.

KnightlyMyMan, benefits are and always have been, a safety net.

The working poor need that safety net, now more than ever.

Those that can't earn much over minium wage and who have tried to come off benefits, are the ones living in 'temporary' homeless accommodation. They are the ones using food banks etc.

Social care and health are picking up the bill for the benefit cuts and its costing us more.

It's laughable, if it wasn't such a serious subject, that posters think it's the benefit claiments thays drawing 'the pot', as said.

"" Also, that proportion of 'your' money being spent on benefits should properly be seen as subsidising exploitative employers who keep wages low because they know the Government will make up the difference.""

Also, private LLs. No-one classes a private LL, who lives of his HB/UC Rents, as living off benefits, but they are. They've just put in a middleman.

Think of the profits made by some big employers using this government subsidy for employment. Wage stagnation must surely be influenced by these in-work benefits?

Benefits going to pay high rents too.

HedwigsNest

Currently, that's purely academic philosophy, though isn't it, because
practically, people are penalised for working a bit extra. As it happens, in the past, I've tended towards your view, rather than your father's, because I'm more left-wing than Corbyn but that was under that system.

Huge gulf on mn nowadays between those who are living at the sharp end of austerity and those who glean their knowledge solely from what flashes up on the daily mail website front page while they’re looking for the sidebar of shame 🤔 if you want people to be better off working write to your mp demanding the unworkable, ridiculously punitive, labyrinthine UC system be scrapped or overhauled is my suggestion. Wag those wagging fingers in the right direction

'You don't get to decide how people post or what parallels they draw, that's for HQ to do. hmm'

What an aggressive response to a polite request, LegoAdventCalendar!
I'm on your bloody side! I just happen to think the comparison is inappropriate.

JamieVardysHavingAParty

I know the system was different then - but it is the attitude that I object to. If we had a perfect benefits/earnings world (I know never going to happen) there would still be people who took the stance that if benefit payments and earnings were exactly the same, then a person would be working for nothing if they worked instead of claiming.

Our benefits system is terrible, awful things happen to the most vulnerable people and I am in no way saying the OP, or anyone like her, should end up worse off for doing extra shifts, it should be made easy for her to do them without penalty, worry or unfairness. Having said that, benefits should not be a lifestyle choice if they pay the same as working.

Maybe we should look at why working is so crap for many people that benefits are the better choice rather than blaming individuals.

YANBU you shouldn't essentially work to earn nothing, the system however should be changed to allow someone to work more hours without losing out.

I worked with people not willing to go over 16 hours for this same reason, and as a result I ended up forced into taking on ridiculous shifts during busy times. But that wasn't their fault, it was partly my companies for not employing extra staff and of course the benefits system.

If OP is paying childcare too while she does these extra shifts she’ll be bringing home even less than 25.16p of every pound.

Childcare round here for full time is £4/hr. not sure what % of childcare UC pay for but on tax credit system it was up to 70%. I saw somewhere on MN mention 85%, perhaps that is UC rate? Let’s say it is. Deducting 85% from £4 leaves 60p, worked down to £1 equiv is 15p so 25.16p becomes 10.16p. That’s only if she has one child. If she has two we are into negative outcomes here. What an incentive to work more.

Even a payrise at all can make you worse off. I know someone who got a rise, they lost more in tax credits per month than what they gained in the raise after tax and NI.

"HedwigsNest

The work ethic and working for free stance- I never undeerstand this point of view . Anyone on benefits who works and has their benefits reduced IS NOT WORKING FOR FREE! they are working to earn some or all of the money they need to live on. It should not be a lifestyle choice to claim benefits if they are worth the same as a wage just because you can get the same money for not working."

I completely agree with you, if the earnings replaced the benefit loss. However, the actual impact is a far greater loss in real terms. Often, that extra pay will lift the claimant out of the bracket for childcare help, yet the claimant needs more childcare, not less. So they then have to pay childcare costs out of their net wage. They have to pay for the fuel to travel to the extra shift, they have their deductions for Tax, NI, pension, just like everyone else, but then they either have Tax Credits, housing benefit and council tax deductions or universal credit deductions, depending on which system they are under.
Pre-tax
£1
Tax*@20*% £0.20 =£0.80
NI @11%£0.11 =£0.69
[email protected]% £0.07 =£0.62
Tax credit deduction@41% £0.41 =£0.21

Post-Tax deduction on £0.21:
Housing benefit deduction @65% £0.14 =£0.07
Council Tax benefit deduction @20% £0.04 =£0.03

That's a 97% rate of marginal deduction. That means that before fuel, childcare, etc., 3 pence in the pound is retained.

Op? Still there?

I'm out of patience with whinyarses who still think that everyone should 'work' by which they mean be in waged employment. It's just not practical to insist on this (and let's not forget, the ones most in favour of it tend to be the ones who have well-paid jobs which are either undemanding or have a psychological reward in addition to the good wage). Automation is removing the need for a lot of physical labour. Many non-manual jobs are effectively pointless. You don't get much self-respect from spending your days phoning people to ask if they ever had PPI and getting told to go and fuck yourself, for instance.
We need to introduce universal basic income. And before you all start waa waa waa what about the shitty-but-essential jobs, people won't do them unless forced to by the threat of starvation, the answer to that is simple, too. Pay higher wages to the people who do those jobs.

people won't do them unless forced to by the threat of starvation, the answer to that is simple, too. Pay higher wages to the people who do those jobs.

And the other thing about forcing people to do such jobs under threat of starvation, they will not have your Nanna's best interest in mind but their own, many will willingly fleece Nanna in order to keep the wolf from their own door or do the shittiest job possible to keep employed.

Nope you are not being unreasonable I am daughters carer so on full benefits ( trust me I would love to go back to work ) I was offered some shifts over Xmas and my sister is off work do could have DD but for temp pay it would of screwed everything up !

I wouldnt wish universal credit on my worst enemy.

From what Ive seen its so complicated and confusing with rules that seem to change just as you get to understand them.

Those who are saying the OP should work no matter what the cost to her has never faced Christmas with no money because the wages you earned in October have been counted against the money you expected to get today. That money has long been spent on bills to ensure the electric isnt cut off and the landlord wont start eviction proceedings this month.To see a big fat Zero where you expected to see several hundreds of pounds is a severe shock . And there is no help anywhere either.
Food banks can help a bit with food - but how does that get you and your kids through Christmas?

So No OP YANBU- do whatever you can to keep you and your kids safe ,fed and housed.

@KnightlyMyMan There’s no such thing as being heavily bias; the word you’re looking for is biased.

Nah, it's not worth the headache for the relatively small long term gains.