To think there's little point taking on extra shifts at Christmas as it will mess up my benefits and I won't get any more money

[Ginzjam]

Sister thinks I'm being selfish not taking on the extra shifts at Christmas, but if I won't take home any more money and it will cause loads of Hassel affecting my benefits. I'm not saying it's right, but im right it's good business sense to refuse them?

I would do them if I ended up with a bit more money but I won't and I would be saving the company money as I'm mjuch cheaper than agency workers to cover the shifts.

Yes! She should work 60+ hours if that’s what it takes to support her family and that’s what she would have to do if she was was of the thousands of minimum wage workers ‘without children’ who get basically no help from the benefit system!

And just magic up the childcare! Yep!

What really makes me laugh about all these 'arbeit macht frei' posts is a) how many sheeple fall for government propaganda that's really genius Wag the Dog stuff (direct their anger at poor people whilst the top 10% screw everyone else) and b) therefore stand back and let that same government stick it to resident parents whilst not enacting legislation to force both parents to equally support children they procreate (expensive, much cheaper to put the cart before the horse if you can get away with).

You do realise some people at home on “Thursday mornings” are shift workers so include those lazy scroungers like Drs and Nurses...

🤔 it seems to me, you say one negative or questioning thing on MN about UC/benefit and you’re basically hung drawn and quartered. It’s AIBU not CSMO (Come share my opinion).

I don’t think I’ve been overly rude or nasty- far less so than a lot receive on here. But my understanding of benefits is that they are there for (and I do not in any way begrudge them to) people who need them! Not people who would rather not pick up extra hours!

🤔 Either I’ve missed some posts from the OP or MN is far too eager!

*🤔 it seems to me, you say one negative or questioning thing on MN about UC/benefit and you’re basically hung drawn and quartered. It’s AIBU not CSMO (Come share my opinion).

I don’t think I’ve been overly rude or nasty- far less so than a lot receive on here. But my understanding of benefits is that they are there for (and I do not in any way begrudge them to) people who need them! Not people who would rather not pick up extra hours!*

No, it's people pointing out your errors and misunderstanding of the system.

If the OP were not in need of benefits she wouldn't qualify for them.

But UC is often a shitstorm and currently experiencing a lot of IT/computer related cock ups which mean taking on a few extra shifts can result in stopped payments entirely, sometimes for months and then the extra shifts have vanished.

The real problem is low/stagnant wages (there's another eye-opening thread in AIBU on this), increased cost of living and gig economy.

But it's easier to point fingers at individuals.

Don't do it. Why should you if all you get is grief?

The system is utterly fucked. However that's not of your making and there's nothing you can do about it.

The real problem is low/stagnant wages (there's another eye-opening thread in AIBU on this), increased cost of living and gig economy

Absolutely this

It shows far more self-respect and a good sense of ethics to refuse ad hoc extra hours that will actually cost you money. Part of the mindset behind the introduction of UC is to punish the poor for their poverty and keep them in a state of terrified submission - many unskilled jobs are not 'necessary' in any sense other than to fill up people's time and fulfill the unhealthy wank fantasies of the wealthy and powerful who think everyone 'should work for their living' despite the fact that many wealthy, powerful people inherited their wealth and power and have never 'worked' in any real sense of the word.

Knightly, I think the issue is you're not picking up on key words the rest of us are. Seeing you post like that then leads us to conclude you're not rtft, which leads to abrupt replies.

I am going to use an example with random numbers to help you understand the issue.

Imagine that Linda works full-time, minimum wage. Due to her low income, she receives top-up benefits for her and the kids. These benefits are the difference between having enough to eat every day and not.

At Christmas, she has the opportunity to pick up extra shifts for two weeks, because it's Christmas, time of the Christmas rush. However, if she takes the extra shifts for these two weeks, her income will be pushed above the claim threshold for two weeks, and her top-up benefits will be stopped. In the meantime, Linda has rent to pay! When she reapplies after the Christmas shifts are done and waits for them to process her application, the delays may see her having to go without food so the kids can eat.

It's financially irresponsible of Linda to do extra shifts.

Knight I don’t think you understand how the benefit system now works. If the OP takes on for example an extra 10 hours work for £100 she will loose hundreds of pounds in benefits and will have no benefits for a few months due to the major fuck up that is UC. The OP obviously qualifies for benefits and needs them so why would she go without for a few months just to do a few extra hours that she will no way benefit from. That isn’t anything to do with work ethic it’s called survival. People on UC don’t have a few grand in the bank to tide them over for a few months whilst things get sorted.

Anyone who questions the work ethic has no idea of how stressful it is trying to complete housing benefit evidence month by month depending on payslips, and how many phone calls and repeated documents are needed, every week sometimes.

Nah, we wouldn't understand would we? Working our arses off, full time,to pay our own rent or mortgage in full with no help! Not stressful at all.

If everyone has the attitude that they don't want to work a bit more to earn their OWN money albeit a little less, the money in the pot will soon run out.

The system is at fault here.

It should be possible to adjust benefits, at busy times for businesses, without having the individual employee take on the risk (massive in their circumstances) of reapplying for the benefits we all know they'll need in January .

As the hours simply won't be there then.

Businesses benefit from these government subsidies to low income workers too you know.

On future don't tell your judgemental sister

Spot on, Reanimated!

Don't do it OP. You'll get caught up in all sorts of financial instability. Sad but true.
The system is bollocks.

YANBU

the money in the pot will soon run out.

I'm pissing myself laughing that people still believe low-income, min wage workers are responsible for depleting this so-called 'money pot' the government made up so sheeple will fall for their Wag the Dog tactics to convince everyone that the ills of society are caused by the poor and not the top 10-5% taking it all and fucking everyone else!

It's almost comical.

This same government triggered Article 50 and now it's going to cost us more to leave the EU than staying in it!

Haaaahaaa! You couldn't make it up!

Funny, there's money for that, though, from 'the money pot'.

Personally, I've never needed benefits. I'm grateful for that. But I certainly don't imagine that low-income and/or poor people deserve to be punished for their state because it doesn't take much to imagine that no one truly wants to be poor, low-income, etc.

I find working full-time, securely certain that I will be paid at the end of the month, less stressful than wondering whether a benefit application will be granted and whether I will have to produce more documents, personally.

It seems like the latter is less physical laborious, but in practice it's more anxiety-inducing.

This is one area where Universal Credit COULD have been an excellent idea - with truly modern, dynamic use of IT systems that worked in real-time it could have been completely flexible and able to deal with the fact that someone works more at some points and therefore gets less UC in those weeks only, without having to recalculate the whole claim, causing delays and possible hardship down the line. Imagine just being able to pop into the website how much you'll earn next week and getting an instant update on how that affects UC - you'd be so empowered about what choices to make and not scared you'd end up screwed down the line. If the government really cared about getting people into work more, that's what they could have created - don't tell me the technology doesn't exist to do it. But instead we end up in situations like this where the OP quite rightly is not prepared to risk future stability for the sake of work now.

If the government really cared about getting people into work more, that's what they could have created - don't tell me the technology doesn't exist to do it.

Exactly! But they don't, only in punishment.

😂 I enjoy all of the ‘some terrible people on here this morning’ for expressing an opinion I believe MANY share - only most of them are probably at work and not on mums net (I have a day off) so surely the AIBU sample will be heavily bias as the majority of those answering it are, themselves, at home on a Thursday morning!

Well I'm on Mumsnet this pissing down fine Thursday morning and work 36 hours a week, in fact hour number 36 finished just over 2 hours ago...... And I've just finished my commute home.

OP - if the hours were regular then I'd say yes, you need to take them, but in reality working a few ad hoc shifts like these actually can end up costing you money.
It's happened to me in the past, extra shift, extra childcare costs and extra travel expenses etc. Then when you declare it it takes weeks to all get sorted out and you're left with building debts to things like landlords and councils and utilities. That's the reality of the situation.
I faced this dilemma and I eventually worked out that if I could live on a tenner a week less (hard when every penny is accounted for anyway) I overestimated my earnings for tax credits, as I don't get housing/ctb anyway now they don't come in to it these days. This meant my weekly payments were less by about £10/15 but it gave me leeway to work extra shifts if I could. This way I'm not ever actually financially 'up' for working an extra shift in the long run, however I don't end up with an overpayment. I allowed one extra hour a week in my calculation, which is 52 extra hours I can work a year.
I do appreciate though this might not be feasible for everyone, and Hb and ctb are so much more complicated.
I have no idea if it would work on universal credit or not. I suspect not as it's worked out monthly on your previous income rather than annually like tax credits.

And I agree that benefits are there as a safety net, but that safety net is removed for an unknown period of time, even when the extra hours are long gone, and the extra you have earned does not match what you lose for months, and it actually causes more hardship. It's easy to have such high minded principles when you don't have the threat of bailiffs or eviction hanging over you.

I was under the impression that UC was supposed to stop this situation happening? That you could go ahead and work extra temporarily, or pick up casual work without fear of everything being withdrawn for weeks on end leaving you with nothing to live on a a huge overpayment.

You really can't blame people for needing to keep cashflow coming in, it's not about work ethic, it's about being too scared to do that extra shift because it'll inevitably push you into debt of some description.
The fault is a badly designed system that only works for people who earn the same every month, it doesn't work for those with a fluctuating income. So people will try and make sure they don't have a fluctuating income to keep on an even keel.

Yes TheFifth.

All this talk of wanting to prevent people being trapped into benefit-dependency, and yet UC does exactly that!

What TheFifthKey said. Changing to a UC system could have been a great opportunity to simplify benefits and make them actually work well for people. It's not low paid workers fault this hasn't happened.

No benefits here. But I have been poor in the past and yes the anxiety of not knowing if you can pay your rent is real.