Sticky situation, I need your advice!

[ihavequestions101]

I really need your help...

I'm 24 and my mum has bean struggling with my DB for a few years now. She has also been struggling with mental health and has asked for my help with getting her back on track and DB in the process. I'm off work for 4 weeks from next week so will be able to give the situation my full attention. This is where you come in, I have absolutely no idea where to start and even what the right thing to do is so I'll explain the situation and hopefully you will have some advice!

My 'problem' DB is 14 years old and struggles with school. He has always had issues with his anger i.e. getting irrationally angry if something doesn't go his way and smashing things up etc. Obviously this didn't bode well with school and he has been in and out of school either in exclusion or suspended more times than you could imagine. The school aren't particularly helpful in this respect (from what I can gather). He also has an awful attitude, always replying with sarcastic comments and knowing how to rub everyone up the wrong way. You cannot have a normal conversation with him at all although I do understand that this is probably normal for a teenage boy... I don't know.

After speaking with DB he has mentioned that he sometimes feels anxious which contributes to him not wanting to go to school, I've suggested speaking to a doctor but he straight up refuses to go. He also has problems with his eating, has a very limited diet and doesn't like things touching on the plate.

DM has been a bit of a pushover with them due to her mental health being in decline it's just been easier to let him get on with it but I think it's making her worse as the school are threatening to take her to court over his absence.

Sorry about the long long story I just need some advice from anyone who has been here in this situation.

My plan is:

• Remove all electronic devices if he refuses to go to school.
• Set time frames that he can use the electronic devices from and until.
• Try and get him to see a doctor (not sure how yet).
• Speak to the school and see how they can help too.
• Buy him an alarm clock so he can be in charge of his own wake up times.

I suppose my questions are:
What should I do if he point blank refuses even after taking all of his electronics away? Can I manhandle him into the car and to school?
How is best to speak to him? Should I be tough or gentle?

I want to do whatever is best for him really and I don't want to damage him in the process. Help

My reason for this thread being in AIBU is down to the suggestions I have, are they unreasonable?

Has DB ever been assessed to check for a possible cause/explanation for his behaviour in school?

I ask, because he sounds quite a lot like my DS1 at that age, and DS1 has Aspergers.

Of course, he may just be playing up due to lack of boundaries at home o he may just be "naughty". I wouldn't rule out a possible cause however.

You are not his mother. It is clear your brother is lacking in parental guidance. Try to get help for your mother or petition the courts for guardianship if the situation is that dire.

Coffee: no nothing has been mentioned by the school but it is something that has entered my mind but I've never known enough about it to come to a conclusion.

I think I might mention it to the school and see what their response is if we can't get him back on track in the first instance. Thanks for the info, that's really helpful.

Aqua: my mum is currently in counselling and is working with the doctors to get better. She has been recovering for a month or so and we have been working through her problems together.

I know I'm not his mother but he is my brother and it's my family and I want to help. Applying for guardianship is a bit of an overkill at this point.

You've been on about this before haven't you?

All of your suggestions sound reasonable to me but how effective they are, well who knows.

You can't drag your brother to school as tempting as this may be. You need the school to help you. A conversation with the attendance officer might be a good start so you can explain that your brother is refusing to attend. Then they might go easy on the letters threatening legal action. Then ask them what they suggest you and your mum should do when your brother refuses to attend. The pastoral person/team at school should be able to help with this and also help with getting your brother into some kind of counselling. My DD refused to attend school once and I phoned the school and told them that. They sent two teachers round to collect her.

If he refuses to see the GP, it might be worth you or your mum still asking the GP for advice of how to help him.

I would try to e mail the school/ teachers regularly so that you have a trail of your discussions and the fact that you are asking for help. They might only liaise with your mum as she is the person with parental responsibility, but you can help her devise the e mails.

The local education authority should also be able to point you in the right direction of how to deal with someone who is refusing to attend school.

Good luck. Your brother and mum are very lucky to have you.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan to me.

My dd knows if she fucks up, she really fucks up.
So she hasn't so far. Thought she's only 14, so I shouldn't be counting my lucky stars yet.
I actually sounds exactly like how I would deal with bad behaviour.

Shriek: no, this is my first ever post on mumsnet. I've been spending some time going through previous posts to find something similar but haven't come across anything yet so if you have a link to a similar post then please let me know.

Doublevodka:
Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. My DM is not so good with the computer so I'll help her with the correspondence and hopefully we will get somewhere with the school. I think it's just going to be a case of trail and error to begin with and see what sticks.

Zulor: you're doing a great job with your DD from the sounds of it. When I was DB's age DM was very strict with me, I wouldn't dream of skiving school or doing anything naughty so she wasn't always like this. I think it's just been easier to let him get away with things rather than deal with the issues. I'm just hoping we can get back into the swing of things.

As soon as i read your post, i thought it sounds like he could be on the autistic spectrum. I have young adults with autism.
Has he had any input from Educational psychologist or the senco?
I think they would be good starting points.

I get when kids are being naughty you have to be tough.but this sounds like it goes further than that with the anger and anxiety which can be cause and effect in some.also if hes not being helped by the school that's not great either.so don't (might be wrong) think it is a case of naughty kid tough love and rules.i think he could really use some help.or some thinking of "different" ways to help not just doctor patient if hes finding that scary.
could you have a proper chat with him.he needs to feel listened to with this.and he might not feel able to eithergo to school or you mum.
its not your mums fault she struggling bless her.it must be hard for her on top of her own troubles to then not have the strength right now to help you are you db.but shes getting help so fingers crossed she can fight this soon and be back to her mum-self
I think you being lovely in stepping in to help.ur right hes your familywe should all step up in times of need.and illness in the family as a good a reason as any id say!
would he sit down and talk?if you asked him what he wants to do.how hes feeling and finding things when he gets angry.whats going through his head?does he think there is anything you can do to help.anything he needs.let him no he can talk or tell you anything.
of course setting up some boundries help because kids need to feel safe by having walls and rules to lean on by people keeping them safe.feeling free or wild can feel not kind but out of control and vunaeralbe in a world they are unsure of.
what about a sport or hobbie.could anything be done to let him espress his feeling.sport.art.activity.
the school needs to be in on this.they need to be supporting him at school or at least talking to you about what you can all do with this.
my advice could be bullshit.but im trying here with what I know from my own experience but of course everyone is different so who knows.
I think you doing something really lovely here though.i know id do the same in a second with my db again.

I don't have any practical advice to give you but wanted to say what a lovely big sister you sound. Your brother is very lucky that you care so much about him to want to help. I wish you the best and I hope your mother's recovery goes well ❤️

also hve some time together.just being idiots and borther and sister.i bet its been hard on both of you seeing your mum ill.and sometimes you need to not just have epoepl trying to fix you especially if he feel unready.
so seeing a future.or having time out can help to see there is reasons to keep working on yourself and ur troubles.otherwsie your just trapped I nthe world that doesn't feel controlled or safe and you just spin in it.
does it seem to you like its more than just bad behaviour?and being the usual 14 year old boy (gits quite often)
keep yourself sane too though hun.it mustn be easy for you.so come home and relaz and do your own thing.and don't take on how he might react.if hes used to pushing it will take strength and time and work to let that stop.and the people we love the most and know can help the most are often the people we push the furthest so that we can see they will always catch us.

Onlyjoking:
You may well be right, I think I'll definitely be speaking to the school about this. I'm surprised that the school haven't already mentioned anything because these behaviours are all displayed at school so they're very aware. Their ofsted rating was the lowest available so that might explain the lack of intervention. Thank you for your advice.

Kateandme:
That's fantastic advice I'd say. I have tried to sit down and speak to DB a few times but he tends to shut down when we get into the deeper things. Thinking about that now it could be due to the fact he doesn't know how to explain/ put his feelings across in an understandable way. My partner has offered to speak to him too so I might take him up on that offer because DB might want to talk to someone who isn't direct family as such and isn't female as my DM has been a single mum and he doesn't have any older brothers so he's been stuck in a near all female household! Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it.

Triwarrior:
Thank you, I really appreciate you saying that

I went through a similar stage when I was younger, my parent was also suffering with mental health problems which meant they couldn't parent me. I have tremendous guilt about this now.

Despite the angry and defiant appearance I was actually terrified and lost. It was very frightening to have a parent that couldn't set limits for me and was unwell.Much of my behaviour was probably an attempt to illicit a concerned parental response. It didn't come, and to me it meant only one thing, my parent didn't care about me.

On one occasion I had not been in school for quite some time and was visited by the "wag officer". They wanted to know what consequences there had been for me not attending. I commented that my parent had bought me an expensive item. I cant describe how upset I was to get this item. I hoped the wag officer would Tell my parent how ridiculous this was and make them discipline me.

I also had anxiety about school which was code for "I am really worried about my parent while I'm at school". Is your brother staying in the home with your mum when he should be at school? My parent became quite emotionally dependant on me and I think deep down wanted me to stay at home. Threats of court had no impact.

I've really rambled sorry, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes having somebody step in and start disciplining you can really highlight the fact your parent is not.I think it might be better to support your parent in disciplining him rather than doing it yourself. I would also gently ask him if he worries about your mum when he's at school.

Could you buy him a diary, so even if he feels he can’t talk to anyone yet, he has a place to write his worries down? Just having an outlet of some sorts might encourage him to then feel able to start talking.
Also, maybe find some videos on YouTube of some of the big male sports stars talking about anxiety and other mental health issues - he needs to realise it’s ok not to be ok, and that talking to the doctor isn’t a bad thing.

I also would really avoid getting him to open up. The last thing he wants to be is vulnerable. Perhaps ask him what he would do if his kid refused to go to school. His answer, which is about a hypothetical situation and not him will tell you a lot.

Personally, I wouldn't remove his devices as that is likely to cause him to get even more angry.

I agree with others that you are off to a great start, but that you need to get the school on board. And I agree that he sounds like he needs more than just your help. Find out who the SENCo is and email them asking for their input. Keep as much as possible in writing so that you are creating a paper trail. They may not want to engage with you as you aren't his parent, so you may need to get your mum to sign something, or get your brother to agree you can act as his advocate.

If the school are struggling themselves, then go to the LA. They will have an exclusions officer who may be more open to agreeing strategies that they can then expect the school to impliment.

Good luck OP, and let us know how you get on.

disclaimer - I don’t have a teenager
I do think that at 14 it’s worth asking for his co operation before you go charging in heavy handed. I like sprouts suggestion of a hypothetical situation.
I have also seen it suggested to do talking in the car or whilst on a long walk because it reduces the tension because you’re both facing forwards.
I would also echo the recommendation to keep having fun with him. Don’t make it all punitive, try taking him trampolining or something, play games together - there are some good computer games you can play with two.

My niece has anger issues and also gets into trouble at school and has a bad temper at home. Her parents spoke to school and asked for help and they have offered an an get management programme that she attends during school hours. She is 13 and this seems to be working really well. And maybe get in touch with social services about your mum and brothers situation, I'm sure they'd be able to offer lots of help and support for both of them especially as it's affecting his schooling

If you have time, try reading The Explosive Child. Has helped me understand that my DS (admittedly not a teenager) is not not doing things cos he doesn't want to but because he can't. Because he has lagging skills.

And putting in punishment or reward charts has no effect whatsoever because he is incapable of doing what I ask. So all that happens is he gets anxious, frustrated and angry. As do I.

The book has lots more in it than that but I recommend it