To think that women like this make it harder for the rest of us to succeed in our careers?

[muddiecuddles]

An acquaintance has just had her DS2 - I asked her about her plans for going back to work after mat leave. Essentially, her job (in the legal profession) involved a long commute and she knew it wouldn't be sustainable with kids. She had not been getting on well in work and had had major clashes with some of her team which long predated her pregnancy but which she then reported as pregnancy related discrimination. She got signed off sick in the second trimester of her first pregnancy due to this. Subsequently got signed off sick again after her first maternity leave ended. She was very open about wanting to get pregnant again so as to not have to go back to work. Subsequently did get pregnant with DS2.

She is suing her company for bullying and harassment and anticipates getting a generous redundancy package taking into account the time spent in the company as well as the several years since she has actually worked.

If I was one of the managers in her company, I would think twice about employing females of child bearing age. AIBU to think that a small number of women like this make things incredibly difficult for the rest of us?

What is child bearing age OP? Will you be asking every woman who comes for an interview if they have went through the menopause yet?

You're the 'acquaintance', aren't you OP?
A reverse?

If I was one of the managers in her company, I would think twice about employing females of child bearing age. AIBU to think that a small number of women like this make things incredibly difficult for the rest of us?

Lovely bit of forced teaming there OP
not manipulative at all

This sounds very much like one person’s side of a story. I can easily see how pre-existing tensions could turn into pregnancy-related bullying.

Well, a) you don't know anything concrete about the bullying, I suspect, because it'll be a HR issue, so you won't know all the details and b) YABU because 'women' are not in any way a homogeneous group. So, just like men, one woman's behaviour has no bearing on any other women.

YANBU. In the legal profession you need dependable people. The last thing you want is for someone to leave and take clients with the motto give your firm a bad reputation. She sounds unscrupulous, you should contact her employer and give evidence for them. You know it’s the right thing to do.

...and, er, what exactly is 'child bearing age.' Any age from 17-45? Or longer? Shorter? Nice bit of misogynistic generalising there!!

Also surprised at the naivety of some posters. Using pregnancy and children to get out of work is not uncommon. I have known women to openly admit to it.

What a horrible, mean thread.

YABVVVU.

YABU OP
We can’t comment on this one particular case - especially as we are only hearing about it from your point of view.
Regardless, you shouldn’t form an opinion of ‘child bearing age women’ in the workplace based on one individual.

I now know of 3 high flying women (1 banker and 2 lawyers) who had a difficult time going back to work after having children. They all lost clients during maternity leave and were not given them back when they returned, effectively ‘demoting’ them. They all felt bullied/sidelined in the workplace and successfully sued their companies.
Not saying your case is the same, but it can be extremely difficult for women returning to work.

@racecardriver

Also surprised at the naivety of some posters. Using pregnancy and children to get out of work is not uncommon. I have known women to openly admit to it.

If this is true, then why? WHY do they try and 'get out of work?'

Why is men only represent themselves, whereas women seem like they have to represent all women?

Racecardriver, would you answer that?

Because they want to have their cake and eat it

if you are a woman with dc you are more likely to stay with a company & work hard to make up for any time off, ect. Young unattached men are more likely to have time off for other reasons -like recovering from hang overs & long term sicknesses & more likely to change jobs because they don't have "roots" i.e. commitments - sweeping generalization but just as strong basis if not more than that about working mothers.

Yabu - law is a shitty sexist career and some firms/roles are completely incompatible with pregnancy and having children. Tbh some firms are still incompatible with being female.
She’s perfectly entitled to take maternity and sick leave - as can and do many men take shared parental leave and sick leave

"Using pregnancy and children to get out of work is not uncommon."

Yeh, because they're such a great excuse not to do any work. It's why we stay awake and night and stay at home covered in puke! It's so much fun not doing any work!

Women. Such skivers. Always skiving off any 'work' with some lame excuse, like being in labour.

You know, just get in the sea.

If I was one of the managers in her company, I would think twice about employing females of child bearing age

Really one woman does this ? I have seen this but rarely . Most of Us crack on

If you are actually female, OP, you need to have a good hard look at your internalised misogyny.

If I was one of the managers in her company, I would think twice about employing females of child bearing age. AIBU to think that a small number of women like this make things incredibly difficult for the rest of us?

You've just answered your own nonsensical question. It's discriminatory managers who make it difficult for women.

Using pregnancy and children to get out of work is not uncommon.

Yeah, definitely. Because feeling like shit for nine months, pushing a watermelon out of your arse, then not sleeping more than 30 minutes in a single stretch for however many months, is just an obvious choice to make if you fancy ‘getting out of work’.

@winterfellwench well most of the women who I know who choose not to work (including the ones who do so unscrupulously) make that choice because they prefer being a SAHM to working. Surely that’s not so hard to understand? I for oveepuld much rather stay at home the rest of my life than go back into work. Indeed I would if I could afford it.

@monkeynurs well I felt awesome during pregnancy as do many women. I actually rely enjoyed giving birth. And I would much sooner stay at home with my lovely children than work. For women who have no independent means trying to get a pay out from and employer (or forcing you husband to take on extra hours because you simply can’t go to work because you want more children backed up with a threat of divorce as per the women I know) seems like an obvious route. There are a lot of very unpleasant people in this world.

@motgerofdragonite but proper work is so unpleasant. The two women I am thinking of in particular used to have very high flying careers but they were completely burnt out and not very well mentally after a while. They seems much much happier now that they are SAHM. They’re the kind of women who always look perfect, as do their (perfectly behaved) children who are adorned in handmade/organic designer clothes. They seem to thrive that way. Not all women hate being mothers and not all people want to work (I know I wouldn’t given the choice).

@assassiated beauty why me? Isn’t it obvious. Men and women can both be subjects of generalisations. You see the same when discussing male violence. Not all men are violent but violence is seen as a male problem. Not all women prioritise their family over their careers but it’s still considered stereotypically female. When you combine an extreme example (like in the OP) with a generalisation it reinforces the belief. So if the employer believes the generalisation or is at least aware of it. An experience like this will strengthen the belief that the employer will come second. In contrast if you take it to the other extreme (another real life example of a woman returning to work a week after giving birth and being just as dedicated to her job as before) it will lessen the belief.

OP YANBU at all!