To think I have effectively been dismissed?

[Autumnwindinthewillows]

I worked at an office less than 5 mins walk from a major transport hub. The firm then moved to an office with no easily accessible public transport but the arrangement at the time (or so i thought) was that staff with cars would pick me up from the old office. With staff changes this is no longer happening and I cannot get to work without an hour long journey on public transport plus a 1.5 mile walk which is not feasible.

The bosses have basically reneged on the deal and said it is my problem so it would seem i am out of a job. Can I claim constructive dismissal?

Usually if you are being paid for travel for ad hoc trips to other locations, they actually deduct your base mileage anyway.

So if home to your usual base is 5 miles, and your ad hoc trip from home is 25 miles, they only pay you for 20 miles, as 5 miles is your usual cost anyway.

OP

I can see it's not a great position to be in, but I think you need to be sensible and realistic.

At best you have been naive, at worst very foolish. Your boss could not instruct or enforce your co-workers to "pop out from work to get you" or collect you on their way to work solely to allow you to have a convenient commute! I cannot believe you actually thought that a reasonable thing to demand (unpaid) of your colleagues. I'm more surprised they all agreed to it though. Did you have any of this in writing or was this a throw away comment?

To be honest, I'm not surprised your colleagues have started saying no- it's disruptive if they have to leave the office to go and collect you. If they have to collect you on the way to/from work it's an inconvenience. Also- if your colleagues are using their own cars have you ever contributed towards their costs if they are coming to collect you? That's 3 miles per day, every working day (15 miles per week)- added up over a year, assuming 6 weeks annual leave, that is 690 miles per year..... But hey, they're saving the parking costs so they can afford to subsidise you....

Back to practicalities: I would have thought a move of 1.5 miles would be unlikely to trigger any relocation package or redundancy, unless there was a specific clause in your contract relating to that. If you have been there less than 2 years I don't think redundancy or constructive dismissal legislation applies to you- I could be wrong on that one though.

I would not think it reasonable to demand that your employer remain in the original location solely for your benefit (I'm not clear if that is what you think). I would also say that it is not your employers responsibility to ensure you can get to work, that is up to you. I would agree you should seek help from those organisations that can provide support.

Finally, with regard to where you go from here: you need to speak to your employer about reasonable adjustments. I'd advise you to do this after having talked it through with your union representative.

Note that what constitutes reasonable adjustments depends on the nature of your work, the size of the business, the impact of your proposals on the employer and so on. It doesn't mean you can unilaterally decide the terms of those adjustments- e.g. you cannot announce you will now be working from home on x days or only working 25 hours per week when you are contracted for 37.

And if you reduce your hours, I think you will have to accept reduced pay- how you can think it reasonable to reduce your hours (? by three hours per day, so if working 5 days per week that would be 15 hours) but expect full pay I really don't know. It's also massively unfair on your colleagues- you get paid the same as them for less work. And presumably someone will have to pick up the work you aren't doing when you aren't there?

If the reasonable adjustments that you want cannot be made (assuming you are not able to challenge that), you'll have to look for a new job and do the commute until you start that new job- or as long as you can, and then if you become too unwell to work you can be signed off. Or you can hand in your notice now. You can't just start turning up late or leaving early without the agreement of your employer- unless you want them to dismiss you. But I would have thought that your poor time-keeping would show up on your references, which wouldn't be helpful to you in the long run.

My DH does a 1.5 to 2 hr commute each way. It's completely destroying him, he is exhausted all of time and often doesn't get in until 9/10pm at night so I basically don't see him all week. It is an awful way to live and I don't think anyone should be recommending this as OK. Too many people so commutes like this but it is not healthy and gives people a very poor work/life balance. I believe anything over an hour is considered too long a poor for people's health and well-being.

Please stop saying that the se stupidly long commutes becoming the norm in society is OK. Because it isn't.

@Alaaya that is spot on thank you
I know I am not thinking rationally which is why i posted- to get all the crap thoughts and black and white thinking and catastrophising over and done with before I go back to work plus see 'normal' responses to give me an idea what work are thinking - again I really don't see it due to the fixed way of thinking. The boss said people would give me lifts - I believed him. I should have given it wider consultation at the time then it would have become apparent it is not normal.
I do struggle with asking for reasonable adjustments to my working hours if I don't know what actually works until I try it. The union agreed that trying things out and keeping a log is the right next step so I can have an informed discussion with my employer.
I like the idea of a previous poster who suggested asking for a six week period to get used to the new commute. I have a consultant appt next week so will ask for their advice.
As for who would pick up my work the answer is me - I would be expected to get the same amount of work done in less time which is why i am loath to agree to reduced hours , I'd just end up doing (unpaid) overtime to cover it so getting paid less for the same work i do now.

MiniMum

I agree overly long commutes are not good for anyone. However, it is not your employers responsibility to determine what your commute is and whether it is too long- nor are they in a position to "fix it" for everyone.

It's up to the individual where they live, so it's in their hands to decide where they live in comparison to where they work. If they feel the commute is too long- there are three options: 1) seek alternative employment closer to home; 2) ask to work from home all/some of the time or see if there is an alternative location to work from; 3) Move home to be closer to work (I do accept this is not always financially or logistically possible).

OP

The boss said people would give me lifts - I believed him. I should have given it wider consultation at the time then it would have become apparent it is not normal

OP was this a firm promise, in writing/in your contract? Or something along the lines of "don't worry, I'm sure someone will give you a lift"? Because those are two very different scenario's and it does change matters somewhat.

I do struggle with asking for reasonable adjustments to my working hours if I don't know what actually works until I try it. The union agreed that trying things out and keeping a log is the right next step so I can have an informed discussion with my employer.
I like the idea of a previous poster who suggested asking for a six week period to get used to the new commute
Ok- but you need to get permission from work to "trying things out" if this means that you will be arriving late/leaving early or not attending that day. You can't simply decide that this is what you are doing, keep a log and then tell them what you plan to do when you've decided what works. Your reasonable adjustments also have to work for your employer, they are not a unilateral declaration.

@Ginandsonicscewdriver - I am one of the posters you quoted as disablist. Apologies for any offence caused by my ignorance. I do have bipolar friends and a couple of bipolar colleagues but I completely accept that their experiences are specific to them. I was curious but didn't mean to sound disablist at all so I am very sorry if it read that way.

I do think the OP sounds entitled. Every post is about how the situation affects her with no consideration for the impact that it has on everyone else around her. I do, however, apologise for causing unintentional offence about bipolar.

You still don't seem to get the fact that you need to take responsibility for yourself rather than whining because other people will not indulge you. I wonder if it is an aspect of your MH issues that you firstly only hear what you want to hear ("Everyone will rally round and drive you wherever you want to go, because you are SO SPECIAL") and then get angry when it turns out that you took a very casual comment too literally and that people are not going to prioritize you over their own needs or those of the business. All your posts are harping on the fact that you feel entitled to have your colleagues inconvenience themselves every day because you will not make any attempt to manage your own issues.

I would be expected to get the same amount of work done in less time which is why i am loath to agree to reduced hour

What about condensed hours? You could work reduced hours a couple of days a week when you go into the office, but work longer hours on the days you work from home, so overall, you still do the same number of hours in a week.

I don't know if this would suit the nature of your work, or your disability, but I think one of the things you need to have done is show that you have thought about all possible solutions, and where possible, try them out, to see what is and isn'the feasible.

The point is op is that anything you do needs to be in consultation with your manager and keeping them informed at all times

Please read jacks11 posts above. They are giving you some good advice and asking some good questions in a kind way (not like some other posters)

Your colleagues definitely wouldn't see the reduced hours like that, would they? If you can get the same work done in reduced hours then they would argue they could do more work in their hours. It opens a can of worms.

I think compressed hours could be an idea

If you can get the same work done in reduced hours then they would argue they could do more work in their hours.

^^^
This.
If anywhere I worked I told my employer to give me the same pay for less hours and I'll just work harder so no one loses out, they'd want to know why I wasn't working that hard in the first place. Sorry. But I agree, I wouldn't start pulling on that thread as it really will bite you on the arse.

Yes I do realise they have to agree to any changes. I have a pretty good idea what they will and wont like - I am fairly sure they won't like working from home but they have agreed before to someone starting at 10am and finishing later.
That is why I need to know what works for me before discussing it - no point agreeing something that isn't going to work

Madein1995 i agree with a lot of ypur posts
MsHopey I agree. Interestingly, OP didn't seem to have an issue with their colleagues having to get their work done in reduced hours when the colleagues were popping out of work to ferry them about for free.

Other people making their own way to work is fine, but OP making her own way to work isn't fine (because work should apparently sort her commute)
It's a bit like colleagues paying car costs and parking is fine, but OP paying a taxi isn't fine.
Colleagues having to fit their work in fewer hours due to being an unpaid taxi service is fine, but the OP possibly having to fit their work into less time isn't fine.
OP getting paid full time pay for part time hours is fine, but not for anyone else.

That is why I need to know what works for me before discussing it - no point agreeing something that isn't going to work
Wrong way round again OP.
You don't decide what works for you and then inform work what will happen. Adjustments need to be discussed with work.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes clear that you seem to think the whole workplace should revolve around what you want and what is convenient to you.
People are telling you what needs to happen (e.g. pay a taxi short term to get into work, not taking days off at random to call the union, not telling work your timekeeping will be poor, how you will have to foot the cost of your commute rather than what s happened in the past). If you opt to continue with the current approach you will find yourself having issues, though I'm starting to wonder if that's the end game and then try to make a claim.

How would starting at 10 address the length of journey though? Also a walk of 1.5 miles at this time of year is different to spring/summer and dry weather. Maybe you could taxi it short-term and review when lighter days come. You need to propose something asap, to get them onside, rather than try it unilaterally and then ask. How long has it been since the office moved?

Yes that's understandable. I think what people meant was that you need to ask can you try out solutions a, b and c to see what works over x period before agreeing them permanently as a reasonable adjustment but you cannot just tell them you are doing this or taking time off etc. That will put you on very shaky ground.

Can you answer the question upthread I asked? How much extra traveling time does it take to get to the new office on public transport instead of the old office?

TrippingTheVelvet
That's exactly it.
It has to be a sensible discussion with work about the current situation and what (if any) adjustments might be possible, then trial something with work on board and then review.

Not unilaterally make decisions, not turn up to work, work whatever hours fit for them and then inform work over what is happening because it's unfair colleagues are no longer interrupting their working day to provide a free taxi service.

OP I wonder if you would benefit from some counseling to help you come to terms with your disability. You come across as being quite bitter, not unreasonable but it's not good for you, and have very unrealistic expectations of how people should accommodate you.

In my experience as a union rep, and as someone who has had to discuss reasonable adjustments during a pregnancy, the union don't really give out advice to change your working hours without a face to face meeting, with a boss/HR present. And they certainly wouldn't make a judgment on what constitutes a reasonable commute. I'm probably in a different field but id imagine union protocol similar, so reading your post Id worry that there's been some misunderstanding there. Can you arrange a meeting in person with someone from the union and take someone with you to ensure that you've understood their advice? Or if that's not possible, get them to email you so you have it in writing that they've told you that you can only commute up to an hour and should just try out loads of different work hours off your own back to see what suits?

OP you STILL dont seem to want to take responsibility. "Trying" new ways out and THEN discussing it with your manager is not the way to approach this. I agree with some PPs that it seems like your MH issues have made you feel like people should cater to your every need which is completely unfair on your collegues. Now you seem bitter because your work arent willing to make you their priority. If the attitude that comes across in your posts is what you are like im real life than im not suprised people dont want to give you lifts...

I work specifically within the disability sector as an advisor on reasonable adjustments. It's very hard to advise here as all the facts are unclear but generally; the Union would/could not advise as to what's a reasonable commute in regards to the disability; even if a GP/specialist did state x amount this does not mean the employer has to provide or pay for transport and could indeed put the OP out of a job by default; condensing hours but staying on full pay is not going to happen; changing working hours might be reasonable if the OP isn't specifically needed at that time; to be eligible for RA you have to demonstrate why it is the disability that makes this problematic as opposed to it being a pain in the backside like it would be for anyone - if this is the case then AtW should pay the taxi with no issues, if not the cost of the taxi is a normal commuting cost and it's OPs responsibility to pay for it.

Many people around here spend ages commuting, my partner spends close to 4 hours a day on tubes/trains/buses + walk to get to the stops.

I was going to add yes I know it is also ask not tell. TrippingtheVelvet's idea is exactly what I had in mind.
Agreeing a change to turning up at 10am won't help my commute but it will mean that when I turn up then because it is one option it will be agreed that my working hours are different so I won't simply be turning up late every day. If I get in earlier when I am trying out other options that is a bonus for work.

The more I think about it the clearer it is that there is no future in this job. I just have to get thro however long it takes to get a new job.

You said you work part time? Would it make sense for you to work condensed hours? Then you may have less time commuting and more time to rest in between.