AIBU to be terrified by what David Attenborough has said?

[ArcheryAnnie]

He's just said about climate change ""if we don't take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon." He's not the only one saying this - it's now common currency amongst scientists, and indeed anyone paying attention.

www.theage.com.au/world/europe/civilisation-may-collapse-if-climate-change-ignored-attenborough-20181204-p50jzs.html?platform=hootsuite

There's no time left for pissing about. We've got to take radical action now. It isn't something that any of us can ignore.

Not been able to catch up on the whole thread yet but yes it is terryifying.

We also need to beware of trading relationships with Trump's America if/when Brexit is resolved.

They area likely source of some cheaper food to avoid upsetting the public if prices shoot up, but their environmental record is not good as a whole and many pesticides may be reinstated under Trump, plus the poor conditions for raising animals for meat like chickens etc. Full of hormones etc. GM foods and crops. Nothing like the controls under the EU.. and even that allows the horrifc mega-dairies etc. Horrible :(

Interestingly, with Brexit happening in March I've decided not to book an annual holiday for the first time since DD was born (I suspect this is why many of the companies saw a boom over summer and stagnant bookings so far for 2019). So it looks like leavers will be booking flights but probably not remainers who, like me, are dubious about the state of visas, flights, health insurance etc. That's something I guess!
I also agree people are living too long, and suspect there is a public appetite for euthanasia. I really feel this is a debate we should be getting more involved in as a society and making changes. I certainly don't want to be wheeled about or taking savings from my daughter if I have dementia, for example.
Re the clothing - was listening to an interesting study yesterday about the longevity of cheaper clothes; often far better than more expensive designer brands. We just need to be better at keeping them and not assuming we need new everything every 5 months. More awareness of the toxic tech mountains in 3rd world countries where we "recycle" our phones which end up leaching into the soil with children picking out metals from radioactive dumpsites. More focus on us paying China to get rid of plastics and following what happens when they say no more. More investigation into our lack of recycling plants and why we haven't found a way to take metals out of electronics, recycle plastics or, more to the point, why we don't fund more innovation in these areas. EU was doing a lot, but now if we want to move forward these need to be the forefront of our "brave new world" in my opinion, or we will end up paying for some other country to do it, which we won't be able to afford.

David Attenborough says it like it's a bad thing. I think this is a mistake.

Totally terrified here too

at lot of green ideas are great but you need to look at your overall footprint, recycling vegan diet etc is all undone by just one plane flight a year
so a family living in a small house that don't travel abroad but never recycle eat takeaways and meat everyday are actually greener than the family next door in same house that recycle buy fair trade everything are vegetarian but go on a holiday to Florida or similar each year

many things that are green are free but people don't want to do them
don't wash any clothes apart from underwear and maybe shirts until worn a few times the same with towels etc, washing things worn once unless visibly dirty is a waste of resources,
unless you work on a farm; in heavy industry; mining or a building site most people are not so dirty they need to shower 1-2 times a day and immediately wash the towel having only used it once, have clean pyjamas every day and never wear a skirt, jumper trousers the next day
don't buy new clothes furniture etc unless old ones worn out or in case of children out grown, it is better to have only 3 pairs of black trousers than have 10 and recycle them,
a dining table and chairs should last a lifetime as should wardrobes etc
repair things, don't buy unnecessary stuff, keep your phone tablet pc until it no longer works and can't be repaired you really don't need to upgrade, if you need a car buy the most economical one possible and keep it until unrepairable latest research shows electric cars aren't really that environmentally friendly due to batteries
things should be made to last even houses they are talking about new houses lasting perhaps 60 years, why can't they build houses that last 100+ years there are thousands and thousands of victorian terraces that still function as homes why can't they build houses that last as long most of these houses have original windows wood that is over 100 years old still working fine but now people think a window has lasted ages if it last 25 years and it is plastic which will pollute the world for much longer than a replacement wood window

Excellent thread. So encouraging to see this conversation not totally derailed by deniers and fatalist. And in AIBU, not tucked away in the Climate Change topic.
I agree with a PP saying that it is the conversation that needs to change. Another PP who said they don't talk about their green efforts in RL for fear of sounding like a 'twat', hits the nail on the head. Greta Thunberg, the Swedish teenage girl who began a weekly Friday school-strike sit-in outside the Swedish parliament and who has gone on to inspire global activism questioned why climate change isn't front page news every day, or on the news every night. Which is a reasonable question.
I think the conversation needs to change in as much as we need to start having it in the first place. In our workplaces, with friends and family. Individuals effect change, through the choices we make. Not only do those choices influence industry and manufacturing, but they influence those around us too. So many significant changes such as compulsory seat belts and the smoking ban seemed unachievable at first and were ridiculed, but now we're at a point where it is socially unacceptable not to wear a seat belt or to smoke near children, for instance. Granted, these changes were implemented with the help of legislation, but if the conversation about climate change is brought increasingly into the mainstream, then I wonder how long it will be before it is deemed socially unacceptable to fly in the face of science and persevere with environmentally unfriendly personal choices? You'll look like a dick for long-hauling to the Maldives. Even if people don't say it to your face, you know they're thinking it. Might as well wear a t-shirt saying "Fuck your kids!".

Having hopped off on a slight tangent just now, what I really wanted to say was something along the lines of "What does it really matter if people fleetingly think me a sanctimonious climate bore, if by my speaking out I am part of manifesting change?"

You'll look like a dick for long-hauling to the Maldives. Even if people don't say it to your face, you know they're thinking it. Might as well wear a t-shirt saying "Fuck your kids!".

That's not my first thought. More like 'lucky bastards'. That's a more accurate thought of the general public.

I wouldn't think they were a dick as I wouldn't know what environmental choices they'd made to fly there

If we had a personal carbon footprint to 'spend' then we wouldn't judge others

Vote against fucking morons

People need to be educated on the impact of global warming- causes, how to reduce it etc.- because I don't think the general public know much about it. Not to be told they're "fucking morons". That won't solve/reduce the effects, obviously.

I don't know of anyone in real life who:

1. is not envious of people going on holiday long haul
2. actually cares enough to stop going on holiday themselves
3. loses sleep over it

I think adult human females point is that we'll reach the stage where long haul holiday = dick, just like we've reached a stage where drunk driver = dick. I imagine my children will look back on any long haul holidays we took (they haven't left the UK so far) and judge hard.

I don’t give a flying rat’s arse about long haul holidays and am certainly not envious of those who do.

Don’t project your life goals and desires on others.

I really didn't know how bad flights are - a friend recently told me that even a shorthaul flight from Liverpool to Dublin is like burning down a small forest.

Has put me off flights at all, tbh. I'm looking at trains to Europe now.

A few things could go in that category
Having loads of children
Down to the tiny things - for example party bags - social pressure currently attaches good to this stuff

Then you move in pretty selfish and narrow social circles what

If we had our own personal carbon footprint then we could make choices based on that

I've never been long haul and hadn't flown in 15 years - but if I went to the Maldives I would still have SPENT far less than someone who flew short haul a few times

If we had our own personal carbon footprint then we could make choices based on that

As it should be - if the cost of a flight reflected the repair to the environment, there would be no need to censure feckless travellers.

It's pointless to rely upon personal goodwill. Humans are fundamentally selfish.

So sad. Even Prince Charles was teased years ago for saying the same.

How do you 'pay' or carbon offset a trip to the Maldives?

I ask as someone has just posted on long haul saying they're going there....

Anyone know how car mileage compares to plane mileage? Is it that in a plane you automatically do thousands of miles or is it more polluting per mile?

Sadly it won’t change as humans are completely selfish

I don't think that's true. I do think that people just don't KNOW half this stuff. People generally live in a micro way most of the time, they're getting through their day, day after day, they're busy, they work, they have kids to look after, they're just LIVING. Those higher up have enabled this to happen for the sake of profit. I don't know if I can blame Janice down the road for taking a long haul flight to see her dying mum in Australia.

How do you 'pay' or carbon offset a trip to the Maldives?

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/carbon-offset1.htm

It's imperfect that its imprecise and a bit subjective, but the idea is that you fund projects that absorb the output.

Note, carbon offsets also reduce demand by raising the price, so it's a two-prong solution.

I don't know if I can blame Janice down the road for taking a long haul flight to see her dying mum in Australia.

You shouldn't. We need to accept that some carbon-intensive actions are necessary. It is the unnecessary and avoidable ones that we should be reducing and mitigating.

Long-haul flights are more understandable - because there often isn't an alternative. It's the people who fly short-haul 3 or 4 times a year who really get my goat. But they will continue to do so while train travel costs so much more for a long distance than flying.

Baking, I think you are probably right and I'm the one in a bubble. In most conversations I would have, at work, school gates and friends, anyone sharing news of upcoming holiday plans involving flying would preface their announcement with "Oh, I know it's really bad, you know envirinmentally and that, but guess what? We're off to the Maldives -yay!"
Laurie , I take your point about judging, and I always enjoy and respect your posts here, but isn't the whole point that we do not, just like you say, have individual carbon 'spends', so each carbon-liberty I take is actually a 'debit' from the global collective account, which is already overdrawn? And that as an individual stake holder I am not being 'judgmental' by objecting to the questionable and detrimental transactions of others? And again, what does it really matter if others think me meddling and judgemental if by challenging individuals (as well as companies and politicians) I contribute to bringing about a broader conversation about climate change? I think the time of personal sensitivity and individual choice as being beyond reproach is gone, and that we are going to need to expect to be held to account socially for the environmental choices we make. This is a big motivator for changing behaviour.
Just to say, I am not big on judging others in other areas of life, and have had my share of adverse circumstances to know that we don't always make optimum choices, but when it comes to the good of all sentient beings I reserve the right to hold people to slightly higher standards.