AIBU to be terrified by what David Attenborough has said?

[ArcheryAnnie]

He's just said about climate change ""if we don't take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon." He's not the only one saying this - it's now common currency amongst scientists, and indeed anyone paying attention.

www.theage.com.au/world/europe/civilisation-may-collapse-if-climate-change-ignored-attenborough-20181204-p50jzs.html?platform=hootsuite

There's no time left for pissing about. We've got to take radical action now. It isn't something that any of us can ignore.

HS2 alone is destroying 30 hectares of ancient woodland in just phase one.

How they can let that happen is beyond me.

Climate change will continue to be sped up if things like this aren't put a stop to

Yes i'm aware of what the ipcc etc etc say and you will easily find studies to back up plant based. What is correct on paper isnt always in the real world though. This message us good for business and is therefore paid for in academia and trumpeted in the press. It's not the whole story though and like i say, while the world well meaningly dusappears down that rabbit hole, nothing is achieved for the environment. You honestly believe big business just grew a conscience and started supplying us with crops, turning down the vast profits offered by meat?

I personally have given up. If the big people in power need my uneducated vote to decide whether or not to do the right thing then we're fucked. I'm no longer invested.

And the proposed Expressway plus a million new houses between Oxford and Cambridge will destroy more.

Link now up in climate change for anyone who'd like to discuss Active Hope, or taking action more generally @AdultHumanFemale and anyone else who's interested!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/climate_change/3443195-Active-Hope-a-thread-for-anyone-wanting-to-take-action?watched=1&msgid=83093404#83093404

Springmachine - I was reading about this the other day having followed a link from the Woodland Trust. It says phase two will damage or destroy 37 ancient woods. There's an environmental consultation going on right now which closes on 21st Dec. There's a page where you can submit your objection here: campaigns.woodlandtrust.org.uk/page/32017/action/1

@WonkySwan I support the woodland trust and help campaign for them when I can.

I just keep sharing the link with as many people as I can at the moment but it already feels like a losing battle.
It's so disheartening

I agree with Online here - what we need to be aware of with Brexit Is how our farmers stay competative. If we have tobsign trade deals eith US it is likely our farmers will have to become more intensive - which is not only bad for the animals but the land too. These are things most of the public haven't quite grasped the full consequences of. Look into TTIP and see what deals we are likely to get foisted on us. Going plant based is great and I agree we should eat less meat for the health benefits. However you cannot force everyone to stop eating meat and a backlash is not what is needed at this point in time. We already have people hearing at experts and "looney liberals" who care about these issues (i'm assuming most on this thread). What we don't want is for this to rule the debate on environmental policy as some form of extremism. Remember Gove was a Tory leave advocate and I'd be willing to bet he would rather turn a profit than actively bring in new ways to protect our environment. So we have enough to contend with without attempting to turn the population vegan or even veggie. Sorry, I know that isn't the main thrust of your argument but I just want to make it clear that guilt tripping and preaching won't work as a form of behaviour change.

It's hard to get people to make even little changes. I see parents driving school and then driving straight home again to their house a quarter of a mile away. Maybe they think that we're all doomed so walking short distances will make no difference, but more likely most people just aren't engaged with issues such as climate change, waste reduction, habitat loss or air pollution. Brexit is consuming all the political energy.

I am heartened by the young people who've been on school strike about climate change, but children have long been the ones speaking out about the environment and I don't know how much difference it's made.

@LonelyandTiredandLow

I agree people shouldn't be made to feel they must turn veggie or vegan. Far better to eat meat once a week, than feel they've "failed" for eating meat at all and go back to eating it every day. But I think a lot of people don't even realise that it's such a big issue in terms of global warming - and it is something individuals can do which will have an impact and which is win-win in terms of health too.

If we have tobsign trade deals eith US it is likely our farmers will have to become more intensive

I don't understand why this or any of the issues around Brexit you've mentioned is relevant to animal vs plant-based food. Or are you suggesting people make an effort to eat British/less intensively produced meat in order to protect British farmers from American competition? But that in itself will mean educating and "preaching" to people about the kind of meat they buy, which you say may produce a backlash. People who resent being lectured to about eating more veg probably aren't going to be pleased to be told to buy more expensive meat. I would also have thought the higher the demand for meat in this country, the more incentive there is for meat-exporting countries like the US to want access to the market.

I'd add, if people are eating less meat, they can afford to be more picky and pay more for the meat they buy.

@Springmachine sorry, I've only just looked into HS2 (better late than never!) but will also sign and share the consultation. I've been reading a bit about the archaeological impact too. It all seems total madness - the main arguments for appear to be economic (jobs, growth etc) but even if they come to pass and it seems there's no agreement on this, at what cost?

I keep thinking why can't we replace the £50bn cost of HS2 or whatever the figure is now with a programme to train people up in the green economy? Installing solar panels, insulation, research etc.

Couple more links on climate change from today's news - this one stressing the massive health (and economic) benefits from tackling climate change:

edition.cnn.com/2018/12/05/health/climate-change-cop24-who-study/index.html

and another one on the importance of reducing beef/lamb consumption (suggests westerners could aim to eat 1.5 servings per week).

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/05/beef-eating-must-fall-drastically-as-world-population-grows-report

Positive in a way because suggests change CAN happen and have wider benefits too. If the will is there.

Humans have totally fucked up the planet and would be doing it, and all the animals, a favour if we die out.

Can you imagine if a aliens came to the earth and treated humans the way we treat animals just because they thought they were superior?

It's good that more people are waking up to what the future holds but no where near enough. Most people are not bothered or just don't believe it. It's probably too late now anyway.

Me and DH made a conscious decision almost 40 years ago not to have children because we believe the planet was overpopulated and also believed that it was not a nice world to bring children into and would only get much much worse. Why do more people not think that?

We do our bit but I do feel it is all a bit pointless. We have been vegetarian for over 30 years (I am practically vegan). We have never flown long haul and only flown once in the last 12 years (we are both in out 60's and I have only ever flown around 12 times and DH 14 times).

Almost everything in our house is secondhand (through choice) and we don't replace things unless they need replacing. We both rarely buy clothes and I almost always buy in charity shops.

We cook almost everything from scratch and try not to buy any foods packaged in plastic. We try and limit our car journeys. Most of our neighbours have young children. The school is about a mile away. Every morning each neighbour drives their child to school then comes home, then back again to pick the child up and home again. Why don't they get together and take others' children? Some have children in the nursery at the school who finish at 12, as well as older children who finish at 3. So 6 journeys a day a lot of them are doing.

I think people need to have less children. Two is surely enough? Where I live most have 3 or more.

I also agree that a big problem is people living so long. Is that such a good thing? My parents are in their early 90's. They have reasonable health but no real quality of life. My dad says he doesn't want to still be alive.

When I look at my parents and think how they used to be, it not only makes me very sad, but I just hope and pray I don't live to be that age.

and another one on the importance of reducing beef/lamb consumption (suggests westerners could aim to eat 1.5 servings per week). Please advise me on how I would use my land other than graze sheep. My best bet is selling the land for 'executive housing'

I meant to say that we are so glad we didn't have children as we would be worried sick about their future. We do though worry about our nieces and nephews and any children they may have (2 of the 4 of them do not want children).

I also agree that a big problem is people living so long. Is that such a good thing?

But how do you enforce this? Kill people at a certain age? Say that anyone over a certain age is only allowed to have palliative, not curative, medical care? How would you decide that age? And it would have to be implemented worldwide to stop people travelling for curative treatment.

I guess euthanasia would ease some of that burden, but how do you implement it without people basically being obliged to kill themselves (because they feel like a burden, or want to ensure their £ is passed down rather than used up on care home fees)? Or is it ok if people feel like that?

(Just thinking out loud here, not aiming these Qs at anyone in particular)

Ah, now then, if people were to be PICKY about their meat AND veg, rather than arbitrarily cutting down on one, we'd be getting somewhere.

It still wouldnt justify plastic tat, plastic clothing, flights, vehicles, daily showers, millions of litres of shampoo and washing liquid and bleach down the drains every day though.

There was an xmas tip on radio 2 today. “Heat your dishes for Xmas dinner by running them in the dishwasher for a cycle”

“Great idea” everyone chortled

Never mind the absolute waste of water and electricity

I see a B and M store and I want to weep

He is right

Please advise me on how I would use my land other than graze sheep.

Plant trees?

Plant trees? What kind of trees should I plant?

I see a B and M store and I want to weep

Agree 100%. I was in a huge one a few months ago and kept thinking how everything in it would be in landfill before too long.

Yes Derxa my second thought after hearing "eat less meat". What about the farmers? I guess if everyone wanted to stop eating meat, someone would have to pay the farmers to not produce any.

Well derxa obviously I don't know if your land is suitable, but Defra offers grants & advice on this.

www.gov.uk/government/news/grants-for-creating-woodland-available-all-year-round