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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be creeped out by BJJ tournament?

62 replies

FoxieFoxton9 · 03/12/2018 22:22

17 year old DD took up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu last winter and is loving it. Great physical activity twice a week, excellent trainer, good boost to her self esteem and self confidence, a generally nice set of young men and women who train at the club. So far so good. She has her first tournament on Saturday, albeit a small local one and I have encouraged her to apply. Went to register her and get the paperwork signed this evening only to be told that she is so far the only girl who has registered and if she takes part she'll only participate in an "open" category against men. AIBU to think it's creepy for young men and a 17 year old to fight together in a sport like BJJ? I pretended that I'd forgotten her passport in order to bide some time and go home and think about it and discuss it with her. She's apparently "fine" with it but I think a) it's fighting, not training, and therefore young men will be encouraged to be violent to a young woman; b) it has the potential for inappropriate touching and harassment. According to my DD I'm "over analyzing" it and "no one thinks about that when they're fighting".

OP posts:

Iloveautumnleaves · 03/12/2018 23:28

She is 17. Plenty old enough to decide if she wants to do this or not. Clearly she does, so what you think of her competing in a sport she trains in, is really irrelevant tbh. She may end up with a femal competitor is others see she’s signed up, but even if she doesn’t, she needs to ‘fight’ not ‘train’ if she wants to learn and if she wants it to be remotely helpful outside of training and if she was my DD I would want her to be able to USE her skills.

Fullofthought · 03/12/2018 23:30

Sorry my daughter is 6 and does judo. She fights both boys and girls and is a gold medalist and 4 times bronze medals since the beginning of the summer holidays. She was stronger than the boys. In our club we have more girls than boys who are black belts. Let her fight if she wants to fight the boys. Will do amazing for her skills and prepare her for her next fight.

Itsyersel · 03/12/2018 23:34

What if your DD grabs a feel of their balls? Is this ok?

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 23:39

Erm... I do judo

I would definitely fight men in training. I have never been groped and none of the men are there for purposes of groping women.

There is a lot of intimate physical contact in martial arts like judo and bjj (they're essentially the same thing with one focused more on grappling and one focused more on throws and a few rule differences)

But we all do it with respect, within the rules and for self defence

You use your opponents strength against them rather than your own strength

As an adult woman I would not fight men in competition... but children do fight mixed sex when not enough in their catagory. The only reason that I personally wouldn't fight... I know I could never win. I'm too old to win against men, my body hasn't got the same stamina. Your DD may at 17 be confident enough to. Some of the girls around that age at my club definitely could beat men of the same weight

It's a very respectful art (judo is anyway, I know BJJ has some different rules that are perhaps more aggressive) but I don't think people will fight her unfairly... they'll be told what they are not allowed to do because of her belt or being a woman and fight within those rules against her.

Refs watch closely. Injuries happen... but she won't be groped or a completely unfair fight.

showmeshoyu · 03/12/2018 23:43

The martial arts, for the most part, are filled with some of the nicest people I've met. This isn't some furtive "private lesson", it's mat work in a class. When I've accidentally made "contact" in a class I've just ended up going beet red and the other person ends up laughing. It's a wonderful martial art, not a seedy trope fest.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 03/12/2018 23:47

I'm surprised she's the only female, is she the only under 18 female maybe?

BJJ isn't properly violent because you're not allowed to hit or kick, just, er, manipulate the other person's body in a way which causes them pain. (I do feel this limits its use in self-defense a bit; it can take a couple of seconds to move out of that BJJ mindset in a proper fight and remember that you can strike - and be struck!)

On BJJ forums I have seen women occasionally mention groping/harassment, but never in a competition, for a start there's a referee watching where all your body parts are at all times.

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 23:51

I will say there's a slightly laddish culture in training... being mostly men in my club, but the men are teaching me how not to be assaulted, how to defend myself against gropers etc rather than trying themselves! A bit like a load of big brothers teaching you tbh

But nothing but respect and rules in competition

The worst you'll hear or see is the usual verbal BS that you get hanging around a bunch of blokes anywhere

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 23:54

Oh and she can win a medal just for showing up if it works that way...

It may well if men are restricted in what they can use against her

She would get the women's gold

They would get medals against men

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 23:56

I should bloody post when I've put all my thoughts down and do it in one

In judo anyway- medals help towards your next grading. Worth having!

AuditAngel · 03/12/2018 23:58

My DDs compete in karate. DD2 so 8 no bought school are mixed.

dd1 is 11 and sometimes mixed in small competitions.

AT a recent competition the sole female competitor (adult) won, much to the chagrin of 5he man who came second

Changednamesorry · 04/12/2018 00:04

It's normal that she fights.men

...dont ruin it for her with your craziness. Let her attend, compete and enjoy. BJJ is wonderful for young women.

kateandme · 04/12/2018 02:44

oh dear

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 04/12/2018 03:24

I used to do kick boxing and karate and would regularly spar with men, admittedly not in competition but I know the under 18s were often mixed categories.

And despite what you see prior to televised boxing matches most martial arts are not places of violence (which often involves a loss of control or a purposeful attempt to harm). In my experience they are about respect of each other and the techniques used. Yes you can come away with bruises and ultimately could inflict some harm if going full contact and full power but that's not how most competitive martial arts work.

brizzledrizzle · 04/12/2018 04:01

My dd did martial arts and would fight her instructor at times, it did her good to do that as he was older and stronger than her not that it helped him. It's good to work defending yourself against a stronger person.

brizzledrizzle · 04/12/2018 04:02

BoomBoomsCousin · 04/12/2018 04:42

I don't think it's creepy, but I would be concerned about the potential for serious injury. Certainly, in wrestling and boxing there are serious concerns about this, I don't know BJJ but I find it difficult to imagine a way in which it wouldn't be the case. Do they have weight divisions? Do they have a way of accounting for women's relative lack of upper body strength when assigning to a uni-sex weight division?

I would ask what risk assessment they have done for unisex sparing and how they ensure there isn't a dangerous disparity between competitors.

TuMeke · 04/12/2018 06:50

BJJ competitions are divided into weight, age, sex and belt divisions. If they accept her entry, she will be drawn to compete against fighters of the appropriate point in all of the above categories, apart (from what you suggest) for sex. So she’s not get to get beaten up by a massive bloke - if she does compete with male fighters, they’ll weigh similar to her and will hold the same belt (so will have the same level of skill and experience). It will be a fair fight.

She’s also not going to get groped or felt up - BJJ competitions are usually held in large spaces with multiple mats all being used at once. Each fight has a separate referee who watches literally every move and hold in very close detail. Fights also usually have two scorers per mat. There are also many, many spectators, also watching closely. I find it exceedingly unlikely from my knowledge of the men and boys who train in BJJ to imagine they’d be looking to cop a feel rather than win their fight, but essentially what I’m saying is that even if they were, there would be literally no opportunity to get away with it.

There may also be late or on-the-day entries of other women in her category.

I hope this reassures you. Ultimately, if she wants to go ahead and compete and the organisers will accept her, she’s old enough to know what she wants. They’re generally really good experiences (regardless of whether you win or not!), so I’m sure she’ll enjoy it.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 04/12/2018 07:01

The key in all martial arts is discipline and respect. As a 16/17 year old (7 stone and five foot - only one of those things is still true, unfortunately) I regularly fought six foot blokes as part of training in TKD.

The only time a bloke was rough (with my friend, who was a 48 year old woman) he ended up being kicked all over by the rest of the class - they were very protective!

TeddybearBaby · 04/12/2018 07:42

I know what you mean. My family are into boxing and you’d never see a fully grown male having a bout with a minor girl (or boy). I wouldn’t worry about any inappropriate touching, I doubt anyone would have that in mind in this situation.

I’m thinking of my two in the same situation and I’m pretty sure it’s my son who would struggle more than my daughter, he’d know that his gender and age has meant he’s at an advantage and he’s be uncomfortable I think.

Bochym · 04/12/2018 13:30

Let her do it, she's old enough and her skill level is reasonable so fine?

As for violence due to learning and practicing these martial arts, participators are placid and do not start fights, they avoid violence unless attacked.

Groping, extremely unlikely.

Good experience for her to be set against males - and win or at least learn

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 04/12/2018 13:48

You started this thread on Monday. If it's on Saturday, I bet she won't be the only girl by then.

Also, she's been doing it for a year and has been training two times a week with the potential competitors for as long. If the guys were the type to be copping a feel, it would be happening in class practice, not when there were medals up for grabs.

Clearly it doesn't happen, so that's why she's happy to compete against men officially.

Respect your daughter's perspective here.

AdamNichol · 04/12/2018 13:50

All martial arts about about self-defence and personal control.
If you were after a bit of a grope, I struggle to imagine a venue where you'd stand a bigger chance of an absolute ass kicking seconds later - maybe only a gun range would be worse!!

Your DD is learning valuable defence skills - ad probs a good idea to test herself against the most likely source of attack (ie: male) rather than a perma-sanitised experience that keeps her vulnerable.

And as for her ability to compete - can we bear in mind it will be a controlled point scoring contest, not some gladiatorial fight to the death.

megletthesecond · 04/12/2018 13:54

Yanbu.
There's a world of difference training with male friends in class and competing against unknown men in a competition.

It's not really relevant to point out that if she was attacked it would probably be by a man. If a stranger attacked her he probably wouldn't know martial arts and she could hold her own for long enough to run.

CynthiaRothrock · 04/12/2018 13:59

Yabu. Please do not bring sex/gender back in to this sport. Some of us have fought for years for more equality. I have fought against male and females since i was 13. I have had to sit out and miss out because i was the only female. If she doesn't want to fight males thats her choice, dont take it away from the rest of us.

AdamNichol · 04/12/2018 14:10

There's a world of difference training with male friends in class and competing against unknown men in a competition.

Because men routinely enter martial arts contests in the hope of abusing teenage girls therein?
Can we please stop with automatic assumption that all men are rapists in waiting.

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