"Scotland manages just fine, people up there find it bizzare the government forces shops here to close." Not true. I'm in Scotland with family & friends who work in retail and they're sick of being expected to be available to work basically 24/7 365!
Most of the scots I know would be fine with shops not being open on or at least for as long on Sunday's.
I'm old enough to remember shops not only being closed on Sunday's but half day in the week too. Families managed then. And in this day and age when there's also online deliveries available there's really no need.
Not just retail there's many businesses open on Sunday's that just don't need to be. People deserve a reasonable working week that allows them time with their families. The only jobs that need to be covered every day are healthcare, emergency services, elderly care & certain areas of hospitality (though I also think it should go back to restricted hours on pubs etc too) which is how it used to be.
Now people aren't even paid any extra for working Sunday's, bank holidays etc. They daren't say they don't want to work X days/hours because they know it's an employers market.
"Retail employees don't work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week." They're expected to be always available, often not given their shifts for the next week until days before the week starts so it's virtually impossible to make plans. It's treating employees like robots!
"many want longer hours" none of the ones I know do.
"Why is it ok to do an online shop and make the delivery drivers and pickers work Sundays but not other workers" nobody said get it delivered on a Sunday!
"Staff wouldn’t be forced to work Sundays as there is legislation in place whereby they can opt out." Meanwhile in the real world...
Most retail (most low paid jobs in fact) have that lovely clause along the lines of "and whatever other tasks/hours are necessary to the business upon request" which sidesteps the regs. Plus as I already said, in the real world employees know it puts their job at risk. Plenty of examples of workers on 0 hours contracts who've somehow annoyed their employer then finding they're not getting offered shifts!
"As you say up here in Scotland we seem to have coped without the country going to hell in a handcart." Where in Scotland are you?
Religion isn't the only reason op, schools are mon-fri, that leaves only weekends to spend time with family, even IF you take religion out of it I'd say we need at least one day a week - sat or sun - where people aren't expected to work unless in a role that really needs to be covered permanently (healthcare etc as previously mentioned).
I worked retail but thankfully not since extra pay for Sunday's, bank holidays and it being completely expected to be available to work whenever you're told to came in. Retail workers have never really been treated well though. I've also worked in healthcare and hospitality. Retail definitely the worst for how employees are treated.
"and if we want to protect workers, focus on choice, strong union access, fair treatment, protection from abusive employment practices" agreed all major problems in retail! I've had a few friends who work in retail tell me they've been told by employers they're "not allowed" to join a union which of course is illegal! Retail employers are among the worst for stomping on workers rights.
"Why not just get everyone to do a seven day week including those in office jobs .Then there will be no more discussion and no more family time for anybody .Fair all around" it's already heading that way.
"The reason the government are able to keep saying unemployment is falling and yet poverty, food bank usage etc is not is due to underemployment - I.e. people who can only get part time hours and would do more if it was offered to them. Longer opening hours would help with that." How? People can't spend more than they've got so retail businesses don't make more money the longer they're open. Personally I think it's partly why so many retailers are going under. Because it's not just staff wages but operating costs & being open longer doesn't mean they're making more money even if customers are browsing. You're right on one thing they've MAJORLY moved the goalposts on what counts as "employed" 1 hour per FORTNIGHT counts as "employed" if anything longer hours is probably contributing to keeping wages low as retail companies are trying to cover these longer hours but still keep costs down.
"It's when Sunday working becomes normal that employers stop paying a premium." Which is exactly what's happened here.
"it would provide more jobs
it would stimulate the economy (more spending)" but employees wouldn't likely get enough hours or enough pay to live on, re stimulate the economy - no because people can't spend more than they have! Unless you're supporting people getting into debt?!
"I think it would make town centres more vibrant" I'm in Scotland where it's supposedly "better" according to many on this thread. My local town centre is dying on its arse, more than half the units are basically not just closed but derelict, the supermarkets buildings are falling apart at the seams with leaky roofs, regular fires due to poor electrics and the fridges & freezers constantly breaking down leading to food poisoning issues - it's a big reason why I shop online (my delivery comes from a shop outside the town).
"The world has changed, how are full time workers supposed to do their shopping outside of evenings and weekends?" Sunday closing doesn't stop evening and sat opening
"Much preferred it to Saturday as it was generally a bit quieter and I got paid a higher rate for it." Both no longer true, how long ago was it you did this?
"And these jobs very rarely get enhanced pay for late nights, early mornings, Sundays and bank holidays." Neither do retail workers.
"Which benefits the worker too as there's no employee NIC either. That's why lots of people CHOOSE to have 2 part time jobs - they pay less (or no) NIC than they would if they had just one job for the same total hours."
1 I'm not sure that is legal/true re working 2 jobs & not paying Nic
2 Nic payments are necessary to provide funds for many things so I'm failing to see the positive of this for anyone but the employer
3 that means the employee is also vulnerable to being disadvantaged in the future due to lack of Nic payments, if they ever need benefits or pension.
Those saying shorter hours were when women were housewives and men earned enough to support a whole family - that time never really existed. Some upper mc families operated this way for a short time but working class families both parents worked they had to. My mum always worked she's early 70's, my grandmothers who if they were still alive would be late 90's now both worked, their mothers worked too.
We work among the longest hours, for the least pay with among the worst conditions in the developed world in this country. With among the worst MH issues as a result. Capitulating to greedy retail owners will certainly not improve this.