to feel uneasy about my son reading Enid Blyton books

[frances5]

My son wants me to read him a book called the "Wishing Chair", I have read two chapters of it and it has a pixie in it called "Chinky". To make it worst the drawing of "Chinky" shows an elf like creature with slitted eyes. However I think my son is totally and utter oblivous to this.

Admitally Enid Blyton lived 50 years ago when people didn't know better. But do you think I am making a mistake letting my son enjoy this book? He is even trying to read it himself that he is so desperate to know what happens next.

When my son chose this book I had no idea that it had a pixie in it called "Chinky" other wise I would have diverted him towards something like Ronald Dahl.

oooh i love the adventure series with jack lucyann dinah and phillip. not forgetting of course kiki the parrot and bill smugs. ive read theisland,castle,river, sea and ship of adventure. still need the vally and the circus of adventue.

Admitally Enid Blyton lived 50 years ago when people didn't know better.

No Eid Blyton lived before we all got turned in to a bunch of guardian reading tree hugging liberals that the PC police had had a pop at.
ITS A WORD, it is not being used in a "racial" way, let your poor child read the books and don't make it in to something it is not.

Ok, admittedly I have not read all 200+ messages in this post, but having read a fair number of the early ones, I'm a little saddened at how many people think it's not an issue that a young child could be reading a book that has terms in it that we now see as racist. Of course, in Enid Blyton's time this was the norm. But surely, we've moved on from those stultifying, homogenic times? There's a reason why we now see the term chinky as racist, and there's good reason to teach children NOT to use it. If you don't say anything, because you believe your child is too young to pick up on the racial connotations, then you are basically saying its OK to use the word. When will you teach them NOT to use the word then? If they had a friend who went around calling people this name, would you stop them? What's the difference between the two? Books are NOT harmless.

For those who think that it's PCism gone overboard to not use the word chinky, then you need to reconsider. Is it really to much to ask in our diverse society today, for all members to be regarded with equal respect?

read on was a good discussion last night

"The magic faraway tree" was my favourite book as a kid and i couldnt wait to get it for my son... he is 6 and although he only reads small bits at a time he thinks its great. I have already started collecting other enid blyton books aswell for him.

Book burning time it is then

to the OP (can't read all discussion, sorry)

its hard, isn't it? I DO avoid her, tbh, because I don't want those words in my house. If I heard the words or those sexist/racist attitudes on tv, I would turn the tv off.

I don't see much point in sentimentalising Books. People get SO worked up about this, its ok to limit tv but OH no NOT books, fgs.

Its a hard one. I think she is a very predicatable writer and actually kids like that. Really, for the age group she aims at, she is a very good writer.

She also has some highly offensive terminology that I really feel uncomfortable exposing my kids to. It IS offensive, the fact that people were less enlightened then excuses THEIR behaviour but not ours. If I were a publisher I'd have no qualms about producing an expurgated edition. Its just a BOOK, fgs.

Where did he get the book? Surely there must be some enid blytons that don't have this crap in it?

When they are a bit older such books might be fine, but at the age enid blyton is actually aimed at-no. Its normalising some really nasty ideas and terminology.

Funny how people pick out bits of EB that are dubious such as her choice of names for characters and ignore any positive messages - stolen goods are restored to owners, kidnapped children found, children live with and work with each other to achieve things, animals are treated well and cared for, "baddies" caught and interestingly for me, a girl who demanded (and got!) equality with boys. If you start cherrypicking bad parts, you ought to consider the good parts as well .

Quattro, the fact that they have a reading age of 10 is surely the point.......they are written for children FGS!

I just want to address Twinklemegan, who I quote " It would be my attitude and those of others that turned that into a racist remark. And I'm sure it would reflect badly on me if someone were stupid enough to take it seriously..."

Twinklethis is NOT just about your own perceptions; it's also about the society you live in. Unfortunately, the term chinky is a racist remark, whether you choose to believe so or not. It's not about YOU finding the term offensive, it's about the CHINESE people in our society that find it offensive. As for people, "stupid enough to take it seriously"I wonder if you always believe it is the victim/target of the word, that bears the responsbility of just shrugging the meaning off, because surely that is not on?

As for the censorship issue--I don't know if that is the right method either, but to simply sweep aside the issue as if only those being offended are being PC mad or worse, stupid, is quite a sad reflection on how little society HAS changed.

I sympathize with the original poster, I would not know what to do, but I do know I would NOT just think her child is just a child and we can just gloss over these terms.

Yes Penelope was more than a bit incoherent. The point I was trying to make is to give an "adult equivalent" for each scenario.

So formulaic = mills & boon
Limited in terms of language = Sun which has a reading age of 10

Yes they are childrens books therefore you expect a limitation but they are more limited than most children's books IMO

The main point I was trying to make is that parents are giving children EB in a sentimental haze when there are piles of better and nicer books out there. Nothing I have read from anyone on here has led me to believe that that is an incorrect assessment.

"If you start cherrypicking bad parts, you ought to consider the good parts as well"

But I can't introduce my child to one without the other.

I don't see how that argument holds. Almost any book no matter how appalling will have some good parts, even if just a paragraph or a sentance. That doesn't justify the entire work.

And secondly EB is not the only writer for children who contains these 'good' ideas of right and wrong. By not letting children read these books its not like they won't ever find other books with the same 'good' ideas in but without the sexism/racism/classism.

And these ideas are so ingrained in the book just changing a name or similar doesn't remove these things.

I haven't read all the posts, but it seems to me that if your child is old enough to understand most of story and is even trying to read it themselves, they should be old enough to understand that certain words may be hurtful to people and that they shouldn't use them. I say talk to your child. Just my opinion.

Expose your child to it in a small way (EB is probably pretty good in this respect) and then use it to teach them. If they never see the ugly in this world, they may just grow up thinking it doesn't exist anymore.
Have a friend here in Los Angeles who drives her teenage son the long way to school just so they don't have to go through a poorer part of town where there are run down houses and homeless on the street. Seems to me that it's kind of the same thing as keeping EB away from your child so that they don't hear racist terms. These things exist in the world and better to have an educated discussion about them with your child than pretending that it's not there.

Can I add another voice to the "don't ban books brigage" please? I read EB books when I was young and don't even recall getting a sense of racism, sexism or sneering at poor people. I do remember that families were always depicted as dad works, mum at home with the kids, 2.4 children, one girl one boy, which struck me cos it was so different from my situation, but that was it. I agree with the concept that we can project thoughts on to our children that just don't exist in their heads. If any child of mine picked up something unpleasant from a book (using a racist term or sneering at someone because they didn't have smart clothes) I would correct them, because that's my job. Bringing up my children, and guiding them in their attitudes is up to me (and dh)

I hear what you are saying and agree on hte need to expose children to these ideas so you can explain how they are wrong.

I just don't think that exposing them to EB at a young age is the only way to do this.

I also think that in EB it goes beyond calling a character by a racist name to much more subtle and ingrained forms of racism etc. And I do think that grasping this is beyond the reach of young children.

Yes a child can understand that treating someone badly on the basis of their colour is wrong, but that is a much more at the simpliler end of these attitudes and it is the more subtle racism etc that I would seek to avoid.

I disagree with you Armadillo regarding age. If your child is old enough to read, then they are old enough to understand an explanation about name calling and subtle racism. Referring to someone as a chinky (not an expression I had ever heard before this discussion, by the way...must be an english thing) can be explained in the same way as calling someone fatty or ugly or stinky. When the child is older they can learn the history and nuances of chinky vs fatty, but I do think it's a concept that even a 4 or 5 year old can grasp since the name calling is already present on the playground at that age.

Dr Who a few weeks ago, was set in 1913 in a public school. One of the main characters (Martha) is black and there were a few racist and derogatory remarks said to her due to her colour and sex. I explained the reason for the prejudice immediately to my ds. Then I went out of the room and he was watching alone. When I came back in he said,'Mummy, they don't believe that Martha is a doctor.' I asked him why and he said he thought it was because she's black. This led to us discussing this and also women's rights at that time. Had he not seen that, we would not have been able to discuss the issue so well. He really understood and took it on board, as he had an example that he was interested in.

burn burn

Oh the Dahl band wagon of those wishing to look oh so wonderful and PC.

Have you ever noticed the type of people who get worked up about the racist words?
I have a black friend who is totally pissed off with these people, good white folk pointing out to the black man what words he should find offensive, cause as he puts it, "us black folks are too thick to work it out ourself s" it is as far as he is concerned a form of racism in itself.

You want to find the word offensive, you want to point it out as such when in fact it is just a word.

For the love of god, my children read books, all sorts of books and I am not going to tell them oh this is a bad word and this is a good one, they are just words, of cause I WOULD NEVER ALLOW MY CHILDREN TO USE RACIST WORDS TO SOMEONE. But I am not going to point out what words could e used in this way when to them its just a name in a book.

Grow up and stop insulting everyone

Veraducksworthhandbagmaybe you should stop assuming that the people who are getting all worked up about the racist words are WHITE. There are some non-white folk on MNSHOCK HORROR--and still find the work chinky insulting and offensive! We have infiltrated your ranks!

Have only read first couple of points but my dd can't get enough of EB, I was the same as a child and TBH I'm considering myself very thick because I completely didn't get that Chinky was anything other than a fairytale name

I'm not sure that was helpful, Lentils.

I am gobsmacked by this whole thread. Maybe I am an ostrich with my head in the sand, but these kind of issues just haven't occurred to me (maybe my kids aren't old enough yet to consider them).

But I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED EB books as a child. Even now, I call Calpol 'Get well quick' medicine (from the land of medicines at the top of the faraway tree which smelled of delicious plums and made Jo, Bessie and Fanny's mum instantly well).

I found Famous Five exhilirating and Malary Towers made me wish I went to boarding school. Living in South Africa, I thought England sounded so magical and now that I live here, when we go for walks in the country and I see hedegrows and stiles and we have picnics (with lashings of ginger beer) I feel as though I'm living in some kind of magical land - and I'm in my mid 30s.

How can books that create such an impression and encourage imagination and creative thinking be bad?

Personally, I think there are bigger things to worry about and I will certainly let my children read them and hopefully they'll enjoy them as much as I did.