To ask for your ideas to teach my 15 year old son about working for money?

[BellsAreRinging1]

DS never got much pocket money when he was little but I always bought him what he needs and treats regularly. Now he's older, he gets £20 pocket money a month and we still buy him bits and pieces such as pens for school, smelly sprays, hair products, I give him money to get food(meals) when he goes out and buy all his essentials. So his £20 is his play money for games, downloads, junk food etc.

He has a girlfriend of two weeks and as typical of that age they are planning to be long term and are aleady 'in love' which is no issue, it's his first proper girlfriend. They want to have a really special first Christmas together which I thought was cute(first love/teenage love and all that). I said that I would help him out with getting her a nice Xmas present, maybe an extra £20 so he can spend £30 on her.

Then in the car a few days ago with DH there he mentioned he wanted to get her something special and my husband piped up that he will have to see about doing some jobs for family to earn a bit of money. DS got riled quickly as he did in a previous argument where DH said he should get a job (note on this recent occasion he said 'DO jobs' not 'get a job'). Because of his attitude I told him he is not getting anything extra off me now.

For 3 days he's brought it up and caused drama and arguing each time. He believes we should just give him money. I have punished him by switching the sockets off in his room (no XBox) and turning the internet off now - he has mobile data but not much so he tries not to use much of it.

What the hell can I do to get through to him that in the real world you have to work for money and noone just gives you it?!! I don't want to punish him aimlessly, I want something to click for him. I've thought about dropping him off at a charity shop to volunteer for a few hours on Saturday (if they will agree to it beforehand) but I'm not sure if that will actually teach him anything.

Suggestions please?

The goal posts were moved. That’s why he feels hard done by.

At first you offered to help him out unconditionally, then your DH put conditions on it.

YANBU that he should help around the house, but that is a separate issue.

Don’t link it to pocket money because again, you would be moving goalposts.

He has nimbl card which is what I put his pocket money on unless he chooses some of it in cash. I have it set up that it saves 50p with every purchase he makes but he doesn't keep the savings long! He's not bad with money when he has it actually, he can save quite well when he wants something specific.

Buy him this for Xmas (and nothing else). You’ve left it a bit late, age-wise for some of the strategies, but since he’s so behind in his understanding of real world financial responsibility maybe he needs the earliest chapters too!

It’s been great for my family, starting at 8yo. I’m almost sure I won’t have your issue at 15yo if I keep my kiddo on this plan through the years. His other book is great too.

So do many people think I should go back to him and agree to give him the extra? I just worry that this sends the message that if you sulk and argue with me (also being quite disrespectful with the term attitude) that you will get what you want!!??!!

He can be a kid, enjoy his time, focus on school AND work. You learn to balance these things, as I'm sure you learn to balance working, household tasks, and enjoying your time away from work.
The trouble with expecting him to do jobs around the home and paying him is you're his family, you've been soft on him, and he'll be expecting you to give in quickly so he won't put the work in. If he gets a job (waiting staff are needed all year round and especially this time of year) he can't half ass it as he'll get fired and then he won't have any money.
He'll enjoy his time a lot more if he can pay to do more things. My brother is a little younger than your son and he's been for a week away at a holiday park because him and his friends work so they felt they'd earned it.

@Nitpickpicnic

That looks brilliant!

He can earn money without a job, ie a daily task that benefit you/DH
Do the washing up
Cook a meal
Hoover the living room
Iron 10/15 items

Have a conversation with him- say that after having a think about it you can see how he could perceive you taking back an offer unfair.

However, in the same conversation tell him how his behaviour made you think twice about reconsidering. Tell him his behaviour was disrespectful.

Say you want to get past this, but at the same time you do expect him to act more responsible and won’t accept that behaviour again. Stress that everyone in your household deserves to be treated fairly, but also needs to pull their weight.

Ask him how he thinks he could contribute more around the house. Make a plan together- perhaps you want to draw up a rota.

Right now I would give him the money you said you would. If you felt so inclined you could make a deal that he pays you back in the new year.

Then he needs to get a part-time job. It's no good giving him jobs around the house to do - there'll be no real consequences if he slacks off and, more importantly, because if it's you paying him he'll just think you're being stingy if he's not getting as much as he'd like. DS has started with a paper round which is pretty hard work - 45 minutes on his bike, 6 mornings a week, for around £11 a week. He does enjoy having his own money though.

£30 is a huge amount to spend for a child on a non family member ! I did chores as a teenager and paid part time work from 14/15. Surely a chocolate bunny or box of chocolates and card is enough under £5/10 ?

If you felt so inclined you could make a deal that he pays you back in the new year.

I'm going to strenuously disagree with this. Never ever teach a child to get into debt. We need to teach them the opposite.

He is only fifteen. I used to let mine have the child benefit for pocket money from age 14, he was very social and that was useful for him. We'd give him more money if he needed it - and if we could afford it. Grandparents also gave. We didn't expect him to buy essentials, like clothes.

However he did get himself a Saturday and part time holiday job. It just so happened he came across one that he fancied, it suited him. There was no pressure from us but it was good for him. He was there a few years, got a lot out of it.

You might find your son can get a job during the school holidays.

I hope his dad gives him money. £20 a month isn't much.

Suggestions for chores; washing car, gardening, mowing grass, folding washing, ironing, pet related chores, hoovering, cooking, putting away shopping, tidying room, recycling, minding younger children

I don't think it's fair that you've withdrawn your offer after DS had an argument with your partner.
Your DP put his own conditions on something that had nothing to do with him in the first place.
I can see why DS reacted the way he did!

It's hard for a 15yo to get a job now. The minimum age for most jobs is 16 and even then the terms are heavily restricted.
A paper round is a possibility but they're few and far between.

I don't think you should pay him for doing chores or helping out family members either; that is just part of being a decent human and shouldn't require an incentive.
As a PP said, no one gets paid to keep their own home clean!

He's got another year tops before he can get a job and start earning for himself, so if you can help him out before that point then I would do so.
Start talking to him about work in a non-confrontational way when the situation is calmer.

I would make the point to him that the gift will mean much more coming from him if his gf knows he actually paid for it.

Otherwise it’s a gift from you!

I don’t like the idea of paying a teenager to do chores like ironing and cooking, I think it teaches them that it’s a special job rather than just life admin that you need to do anyway.

I wasn’t allowed a job until I was 16 and finished my GCSE’s, by then I was DESPERATE!! All my friends had money from their part time jobs and I wanted the freedom of making my own money.

I don’t think it’s very fair to tell a 15 year old to get a job when realistically they won’t get hired anywhere.

Just make it clear you expect him to get a part time job to pay for his pocket money when he’s 16.

I used to do all washing up, iron my own clothes (except school shirts as wasn't very good with shirts for years), mow the lawn whenever it needed a doing and clean my room every weekend in exchange for my £30 a month pocket money in the mid 2000s when I was your sons age. This was my money to spend on games, consoles, clothes whatever although I still largely let my parents buy clothes for me at Xmas, birthdays and the occasional random bit. I didn't get extra except perhaps money for occasional cinema ticket if I was going with friends.

Sounds like you've enabled him to have casual spending money with no real graft to earn it. Might be hard to change that now. I think what your DH proposed was perfectly reasonable you need to just try and have a level-headed talk with him about earning extra money and come up with some suggestions on what kind of things he can help around the house with to get the extra he wants. Provided you can achieve this, going forward you should probably resist on any extra money over and above pocket money and suggest some chores in order to get a larger sum which can hopefully become routine. Once he is 16 and at 6th form/college you need to encourage him to get a PT job at a shop or as a waiter or similar. I had a job which alternated Saturdays and Sundays at a well known high street retailer - it was great. Fortunately I got paid the full adult minimum wage and time and a half on Sundays so was taking home about 200 a month. Before that I did a brief Saturday job at 4.30 an hour and still took home about 130 or something which was loads back then. I maintained chores too

Actually yes, I think you should go and have a chat with him. He is right to be annoyed.

Tell him that he must be feeling frustrated, because you said he could have the money, and then you went back on your word. Apologise. Give him the cash.

I guarantee that his jaw will drop.

After that, you can negotiate the way forward.

I don't think it is fair that you told him you would give him something and then have changed your mind because he had a disagreement with his Dad, either.
Nor do I understand why you feel he needs to be 'punished'

You've made it difficult for him, by not helping him to budget younger, but you can still help him.
We don't link pocket money to helping round the house - everyone that lives in the house is expected to contribute as they are able - but we've always (from when it was < £1 a week) helped them to understand both that 'when it's gone, it's gone' and also ' you need to put a bit by each week to save up for the expensive times - like buying presents at Christmas'

As to if he should 'look for a job' - it's not so easy when you are U16. NOt that many places will employ you as there are far more rules for them to work round.

I had a Sunday morning paper round & delivered the free papers from being 12, I got £2.50 for the morning papers & 1p per free newspaper I delivered ( this was 40 years ago) I delivered 100 free papers during term time & often 400-500 in the school holidays, I got £1 pocket money plus whatever I could scrounge out of my dinner & bus money from school, I babysat for a neighbour for an hour until her husband came home from work every weekday night, I got £2 a week for that. I wish my 14 year old could get a p/t job but there don't seem to be paper rounds in our area any more, it teaches them a work ethic & makes them value money more.

Stay strong, and don't give in. I think not giving him extra money to spend is a fantastic way to understand. When he complains just keep telling him that money has to be earned, write a list of jobs with an amount he can get for each job and put it where he will see it. Don't be generous with the pay, and make sure he doesn't half arse the jobs.

Once the situation has calmed down, perhaps you could start to expect him to earn some of what he gets. Eventually he will work out if he doesn't work, he gets nothing. I think there will be lots of arguing and carry on, but he will get there in the end. Or move out!

You moved the goal posts. You have said he could have the money and then said ‘actually you have to earn it’

Also your partner needs to stop going on at him to get a part time job. He’s 15. He won’t get hired anywhere.

There's no way I'd give one of my kids 30 quid to buy a 'girlfriend/boyfriend' a present

Buy him this for Xmas (and nothing else). You’ve left it a bit late, age-wise for some of the strategies, but since he’s so behind in his understanding of real world financial responsibility maybe he needs the earliest chapters too

I had a quick look at this book on Amazon - I see that one of the strategies is, Handing your kids (or grandkids) a $140,000 cheque on their 21st birthday - that's £80,000. No doubt the op plans to do her part in providing a house deposit/paying uni fees for her son.

You moved the goal posts. You have said he could have the money and then said ‘actually you have to earn it

This - less than 4 weeks before Christmas.