To wonder how easy it is to make a living being a cafe owner?

[spanishwife]

I have a great job, but it's not my 'dream job'. I earn a really decent salary and happy day to day. My real dream and passion however would be to own a cafe/brunch spot. I live in a small, vibrant city in Europe and I think it would work well here, but I have no idea about the financial side of things. I have a decent amount I could bung in to set up, buy equipment and furniture, pay the necessary set up fees, do some training etc. I would probably hire an additional person to do clearing up and waiting tables/serving and I would do that also, as well as cooking/baking.

Does anyone have an idea of the kind of money you can make from this kind of business?

This is the first step on a long road of research, but don't have anyone to ask in RL!

Thanks in advance.

Ask Kelly Holmes. Or rather, don’t!

She’s had to close two cafes with big losses. So it can’t be an easy living, unless she was selling coffee for 20p.

I guess it really depends on location and footfall. Neither of things are an issue where I am, big cafe culture and cheap to rent/buy spaces. We are just lacking somewhere cool with amazing cakes and brunch!

Honestly - I think it is really hard, especially if you have no experience or training.

The first thing I would do is find out what rents are like. I know a slot on the high street of our local town costs 17k€ per year. You would have to sell a lot of coffee and cake to cover that as well as all your other expenses.

My boyfriend owns a large coffee shop, very hard! Good days sales are 1.2k each day in busy periods, before outgoings though.

Hospitality is a tricky industry to crack!

Stay employed. Don't do this. From an experience.

It's hard. Hard hard.

Owing your own business and working 24/7 for potentially low wage is no ride in the park (we had our own business for a number of years). It's hard craft and you'll find that a mark up on drinks is minimal. And then you have to pay tax to the tax man on top of it, insurances etc etc. Stay in your day job, or look into a franchise.

I definitely dont want to go from my role (senior corporate) to part time in a local cafe!

The point of this thread was to ask about income.. can anyone help with more specific examples?

It is spectacularly hard and I would't wish it on my worst enemy. 95% of hospitality businesses fold in the first 2 years. Even the ones that make it past that don't always make any money. One word - no.

Very difficult to make a living , you’ll spend out on fixtures and fittings , training etc and probably not see a return on it
I run a cafe , ( and wish I’d stayed employed ) it’s exhausting

The ones near me always end up closing. The rent is cheap enough, but that explains a lot.

My suggestion is to get a part time job in a cafe near your location and estimate what kind of sales, costs and profit can be made taking into account location, offering compared to your concept

That's a really good suggestion. And working in a cafe rather than owning one means that you are guaranteed at least NMW, no risk of losing thousands of pounds and you probably won't be visiting the cash and carry, banking takings or doing the books out of hours either.

Vast vast majority of cafes don't make much at all, especially those starting from scratch now in an era of Greggs, Subway, chain coffee shops, pound bakery etc absolutely everywhere.

Similar thread today about a little shop.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3437657-AIBU-to-want-to-give-it-all-up-and-start-a-shop-on-the-Main-Street-in-our-village

Could you get a job part time whilst you're still in FT senior employment? Then you could start getting a feel for the industry, the pros and cons etc.

Why not volunteer at a local charity run cafe if you don’t need the cash and see how a few shifts in a not for profit place feels at the end of the day?

I definitely dont want to go from my role (senior corporate) to part time in a local cafe

I think if you were serious about this, then you'd jump at the chance to do a stint in a cafe, learn the ropes and then set up.

The fact you don't wish to would indicate you don't want to do this really.

You need to start with a business plan. That will show you where the pitfalls / opportunity might be. It is no good asking ransoms on the internet. You need to do your homework I'm afraid. And yes working part time in a cafe would be an excellent learning curve , even for a high corporate earner like yourself.

@Pringlemunchers this isn't instead of a business plan of course. 'Asking randoms on the internet' is just me trying to get some input - the same way you might ask your friends or family for feedback. As I said in my OP "This is the first step on a long road of research, but don't have anyone to ask in RL!"

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my OP, but the question I am asking is as follows:

"Does anyone have an idea of the kind of money you can make from this kind of business?"

The reason I posted here is to see if I can get a wide array of examples of specific incomes. This information cannot be sought from Google, or by working in a local cafe.

@Bluntness100 It's not that I'm above working PT in a local cafe, I have of course considered this as part of eventual training, but I see this as way down the line. I am literally just starting my research. Dropping my career now just to see what's it's like to work in a cafe isn't really viable. I can't make a few additional shifts work around my job or childcare either.

The only really successful cafe owners I know who are ending up with sort of 80k a year plus in profits are charging really high prices and selling as a premium type brand not just a local cafe or greasy spoon type place

"The point of this thread was to ask about income.. can anyone help with more specific examples?"

But you've said you're in a European country, spanishwife, so it might be a bit different than in the UK?

My BFF and her DP bought a cafe (in a naice area of London) a few years ago when they retired from their high-paying professional life. By god, it's bloody hard work for them, I don't think they actually had a clue what they were letting themselves in for, they've made a good success of changing it from a 'caff' to an extremely popular cafe/brasserie type place. But they're not making huge profits by any means. Be very very careful.

Everything I have seen says you should not expect to be able to pay yourself for 3-5 years.

I would imagine very little income. I only know one cafe owner and they only pay themselves minimum wage. And I think that is only for the hours that the cafe is open, not the multiple hours they spend doing the books, buying stock/ingedients, baking in the evenings etc.