Theresa May - TV debate- waste of time

[Theworldisfullofgs]

AIBU in thinking this will be a waste of time. Currently both main political parties still arguing about their version of brexit. So all just semantics anyway
And
Most importantly Theresa May NEVER answers a direct question and is always specifically unspecified. So actually what's the point?

Limensoda
Corbyn has voted against the EU at every opportunity for the last 30 years.
He called for A50 to be invoked the day after the vote
His economic plans for the UK cannot be executed inside the EU.

@Limensoda

he makes no ... apologies for spending most ... of his career opposing the EU. That means ... a lot from the man ... who sits on train floors and ... gives wreaths to terrorists' graves and tries to deny ... the truth.

The anorak wearing ... twat should fuck off. I think a strong opposition could ... have halted this nonsense.

Does ... this help?

So it's documented and he confirmed it again this morning but you know better? To quote you...'Yeah right

He says a lot of things. He also likes to be at wreath layings where he is there but doesn't participate.

Someone who has been anti EU all his political life suddenly thinks its ok? If he wasn't leader he would have voted out like Skinner I still think he did after all we will never know

It's the sad state of UK politics, the C-list leading largely Z-list front benches - both front benches being chose largely for the power blocks they represent rather than individual capabilities.

May and Corbyn have both sold their ideals over Brexit. May was a wavering Remainer with a passionate hatred of the ECJ and foreigners that post-Ref has gone full-Brexit to retain leadership of what's left of her party. Corbyn sold his long-standing popsition a Leaver to be 70%-Remain, then saw the result and decided chasing the hard-right through hard-left policies would strengthen his chances of election (no, I can't figure out the logic either).

Everyone that originally promised the unicorns and rainbows on the side of a bus has run away to poke criticism from the sidelines. Suddenly, with deadline looming everyone's a back seat driver and trying to redirect the Deal despite it being far, far too late in the day. That David Davies has a set of brass ones coming in now and saying it could have all been done so much better.

Two years of uncertainty have already hollowed out the economy, businesses have been either paralysed with indecision over the lack of guidance and leadership from government, or have implemented plans to either move or bunker down for the duration and cut investment. It will take years to recover the economy and confidence no matter which way we go now. Any decision taken now will only change how many years it will take.

I don't understand the logic of making this a May/Corbyn debate. To make it a real debate, it should include people like Johnson and Arlene Foster.

Does ... this help?

Well .....no.....because you are now spouting...... a lot of the right wing anti Corbyn shite .....that shows you have no real knowledge the man....
I hope all the.................helps you too.

a lot of the right wing anti Corbyn shite .....that shows you have no real knowledge the man

Just because people don't like Corbyn, it doesn't make them right wing.

I have a few decades of real knowledge about him actually. unlike the fan club

HTH

Limensoda
You clearly are great chumswith Jezza
the rest of us have to go by his deeds not his thoughts

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes

labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/

I follow politics avidly and about 80% of work is with politicians and officials. Brexit will affect what I do quite a bit.

But, it won't be a waste of my time as I won't be watching.

Should the debate not be between our Leader and that Jean-Claude Juncker chap?

I completely agree with Sturgeon - there should at least be a remain voice. Making out the choice is between one bad deal or a worse one (esp. considering the irony of "no deal is better than a bad deal" catchphrase of not so long ago), is continuing to ignore half of the country and the fact this was a NON-binding referendum.

Completely pointless piece of theatre. May has insisted that the People aren't going to be allowed to vote on what kind of unicorns we want. So why bother debating what colour unicorns don't exist?

They are both going to be trying to prove they will be "doing the will of the people" if they get their way. They will be trying to out brexiteer each other I imagine, despite both voting remain and seeming to forget that no one knew what they were voting for until the government decided to enlighten us of how much of a hit our economy will take with any deal compared to staying in the EU - with 3 months to go . Those reports have been deliberately witheld and there's no mistaking that. We are too far down the leave path for anyone to put the breaks on now, no matter how many billions it would save us in the future, how many jobs will be lost. Fight to the bottom.

there should at least be a remain voice

But that would be equally pointless. I don’t believe another referendum should include an option to remain, and I say that as a Remainer. Brexit is happening, and it’s either this deal or no deal. I think Theresa May has taken the right stance on those two points.

I disagree. If there is a 2nd referendum, remain should be there. I agree with Sarah Wollaston - it's like being asked to consent to a medical procedure two years plus before the operation.

@Theworldisfullofgs

I concur. I also think they should have negotiated possible deals and reported on the impact of them all before holding a referendum in the first place. It was a mess from the beginning.

If remain is included along with two leave options in a "People's Vote" wouldn't that just make it an automatic remain win by splitting the leave vote? I mean I know a lot of people want that but wouldn't it look a bit like a fix?

Corbyn is asbolutely a brexiteer and has been all his life. But then he became the leader of the labour party and had to support the ‘right’ argument. His lacklustre performance during the referendum surely contributed to the out vote!

Pointless debate. Even if May 'outscored' Corbyn, it's absolutely no guarantee that the MPs will think any better of the deal. Labour currently have nothing better to offer on Brexit (although it looks increasingly likely that they will say that they will support a second referendum if the vote goes against May and they can't force an election - which they won't).

The onus is on May on this one. She needs to come across really well to stand any chance of winning over her MPs. Corbyn isn't under as much pressure because a general election is unlikely in the short term and he doesn't have a deal to defend. Anything less than an A+ from May will just heap more pressure on her, which she can ill afford.

@Isitsixoclockalready I agree with your analysis - but if, as you say, Mrs May needs to perform well for MPs then surely the debate isn't completely pointless? I wonder if she sees it as a way of bypassing MPs and appealing to the Country in a way which would make MPs uncomfortable not voting for her deal. Not saying I agree with her but that's what it looks like - maybe.

One other theory is that she really wants a no deal Brexit but has to go through this process to get there - so she can say "I tried to get a deal but parliament wouldn't agree"

Neither of them have a clue what to do, they are wilfully uninformed. So will come off as bad as the other. Her tactic is to make him look mad so that she looks better by comparison.

If she wanted to do this sensibly she’d be better discussing her plan with someone who actually has a plan to exit the EU sensibly. We need a Norway style arrangement, some of the MP morons are beginning to realise this finally. Or we can remain.

If remain is included along with two leave options in a "People's Vote" wouldn't that just make it an automatic remain win by splitting the leave vote? I mean I know a lot of people want that but wouldn't it look a bit like a fix?

No, it wouldn't have to. But it depends whether you've got faith in the electorate not to be confused by more than one question.

You have two questions:

1. Leave vs. Remain
2. If Leave, Deal vs No Deal

That way everyone's vote counts for both options, the straightforward Leave or Remain? and then a preference for the offered Deal vs. No Deal? if Leave wins the first question.

There are other ways of doing it with a single question and either three or four choices of answer. But I think the two question option is more likely to be understood and gives all votes equal value.

I concur. I also think they should have negotiated possible deals and reported on the impact of them all before holding a referendum in the first place.
No one expected Leave to win. Even Farage was making excuses on the night that 52:48 (to Remain, he expected to lose) would leave the question unanswered and wouldn't be decisive enough. Johnson wanted to lose, it was his bid for the Tory leadership - look brave and decisive on Europe whilst being a gracious loser.

Why would the EU have wasted it's time on negotiating something that at the time looked like an internal Tory party issue and wasn't going to amount to anything?

But in any case, the economic forecasts for many possible deals were run in advance and published, but dismissed as Project Fear.

No one expected Leave to win.
True.

And as you say, in any case trying to offer what a deal to leave might look like is like the Heisenberg uncertainly principle - any offer to quit the EU made by the EU distorts the picture - and Leavers would have said "they are bluffing" and Remainers would have said "we'll be worse off" anyway.

I'd welcome a debate- before a second referendum on whether to accept the deal or not. Even if it clashed with a reality tv show final.