To think we should cut PILs some slack?

[namechangedbutneedadvice]

This has been playing on my mind for years. It's all so easy to bash PILs. It seemed to be an accepted thing when I was meeting others mums with DD1 that it was fine to roll eyes about them, lament them coming for xmas, curse what a bad job they're doing with babysitting, say what a nightmare they are. I know people who actively try to discourage their partners relationship with their parents. One even who told her husband that now they were married her parents came first!

I always got on with my PILs, one more than the other although I respected her as ExH's stepmum. We got divorced last year and I guess I appreciate one set of PILs more now the others have dropped me like a hot brick Yes they all pissed me off at times but they're only human and typically therefore especially as a mother of a son, it must be hard to 'lose' them and not intervene in his relationship when there are arguments or you feel they're being mistreated. I've seen it with my sister and her idiot husband and I know it's broken my parents' hearts.

Just putting it out there as it's less often said.

I think yours is probably the most common view, OP: it's just that those who feel strong dislike (sometimes with very good reason) are more likely to be vocal about it.

(I'd still lament them coming for Christmas, mind...)

I think some people very much take their in-laws and parents for granted. For example we don’t get any regular help with childcare as all live too far away to make it practical. But they have always dropped everything to help in an emergency and for that I am so grateful.
It really annoys me when I see people on here complaining about something really petty that the grandparents do whilst they are saving them literally thousands in childcare costs!

Most people I know in RL get on reasonably well with their PIL. I have a good relationship with mine and encourage DH to make time for them and we have an annual holiday with them and BILs. They bug me slightly less than my own parents do but at least with my parents I have a lot of love and history that cancels out a lot of annoyance so PIL grate on me more overall if that makes sense. I'm happier leaving my DC with my own mum (I haven't told anyone this) because I know she will parent the same way I do because I learned parenting from her in the first place. MIL is a great mum and gran but she just does things differently. Obviously DH secretly prefers his own mum's methods. Both my parents and PIL are welcome to have any or all of our DC whenever they are willing - I just feel slightly on edge when it's PIL.

Fwiw my PIL have 3 children, all boys. They have a great relationship with all 3 and all 3 DIL and all their grandchildren.

It's is a curious phenomenon. A while ago I read a study that had been done into, specifically, dil/mil relationships. Very interesting. It's so rife it makes you wonder.

My in-laws are fabulous, really genuine, lovely people.

PIL are not a homogeneous mass anymore than the dil or sil is. Some people fall outside normal parameters of acceptable behaviour. Speaking as a pil, I've read threads on MN and am shocked by how demanding some mil are, particularly as to the appropriation of a new born grandchild, I'm thinking of a recent post where the mother was being pressurised by her husband's mother to leave her 9 week old baby with her, when clearly the poster was uncomfortable with that situation. I was very much on her side and it does seem that once some people become grandparents they seem to think it's their god given right to dictate their access to the grandchild.

On the other hand we have new parents making unreasonable demands in their expectations of child minding, and financial support from the grandparent. I've read horror stories from both sides quite honestly. I do have a friend whose ex daughter in law positively encouraged the children to be ungrateful, never to say thank you when they were given presents, Easter eggs etc., and no she wasn't an interfering gp. One can only hope that this type of spiteful behaviour will come back to her when she becomes a gp.

Most people I know, including myself, feel as you do OP.
However some people have in laws who are genuinely toxic, or who cause problems. Some people have parents who are toxic or cause problems. People are not all the same, in laws are not all the same.

In my opinion, if you really can't stand their parents but your partner insists on involving them, your relationship is in trouble.

I feel that if you have a strong objection to your in-laws and your partner sees it too then they should support you in pushing back. If your partner doesn't see a problem with their behaviour or doesn't want to fight it then your relationship is going to struggle later when you realise your partner is just like their parents or values them more than you.

Some people in my old post natal group mostly moaned about theirs nearly every week. They still took the free goods and mortgage help and babysitting though.

I think it is unusual that all/most of the other mums you have met feel this way about their inlaws...maybe one of them has a particularly dysfunctional set and the others are attempting to empathise? Maybe they themselves aren't that nice/got into a bad habit of this being a regular conversation topic? Maybe it is true that a lot of them do have difficult inlaws?

I can't say I've noticed a bias towards moaning more about inlaws than parents overall in my group of friends - not that it is a topic that arises much now the DC are older.

Inlaws (from both directions) are just people. Some really are unpleasant/manipulative/selfish etc. Some inlaws/parents favour one child (and then grandchildren, especially their daughters over their sons) over the others - that is never going to lead to a happy situation. Some people are just best kept at arms length for the sake of your mental health.

I think the number of “conflict with PIL” threads are a consequence of two things: most posters on here are women, and women tend not to involve their MILs.

OPs are the ones who organise their weddings, they give birth and usually are primary carers for their children and make a lot of important decisions about their care (eg when to give up BF), and they often organise the household and the family’s social life. A poster may involve her mother to a greater or lesser degree in her decisions, but my sense is that she is a lot less likely to involve her MIL. For example one doesn’t see many posts about MIL as birthing partner.

It’s not deliberate, it’s just the way of the world, but unless the MIL is very easygoing, or has a lot of involvement in her own daughters’ lives, she is almost bound to feel left out at times, so it’s an obvious point where conflict is likely to happen in family life.

Hence, because it is the DILs who post here, we see maybe a disproportionate number of posts along the lines of “MIL wants to be at the birth/criticises my parenting/wants to micromanage our social life”. I don’t think it is necessarily proof that a lot of women hate their MILs, it’s just a consequence of how the site is.

I don't doubt there are some hideous PILs out there but the stuff that a lot of posters on MN get irate about regarding their PILs is truly mind boggling.

I feel sorry for their PILs having to put up with such nonsense.

I strongly agree with your post. It's something I've thought about a lot over the years. I'm always amazed by how little respect or attention many of my friends give their in laws. At best they just can't be bothered, at worst they actively avoid them or are rude to them. I have one friend who is actually a lovely lady but when it comes to her in laws she is so thoughtless! She has 3 children. The oldest is 8 years old. She has only visited her in laws Once since she had her children. They live in the UK too but a few hours away. My friend is happy to travel long distances to see other people but really can't be bothered to see her in laws. As a result the very elderly in laws have to make the long journey if they want to see their grandchildren. Of course my friend tuts and complains if ever they visit (which is about once a year) because it's a nuisance having the to stay. The in laws have never done anything to offend her, she's just not interested in them. I know plenty of other people who want to have minimal contact with their inlaws. When I go abroad I see how the grandparent are treated with respect and always at the heart of the family. I travel a lot and old people never seem to be as lonely as they are here in the UK. I think it's a huge problem. My MIL is very different to me and we've had tensions in the past but I believe it's so important that she maintains a good relationship with my DH and my children. I know how much much I love my son. I hate the thought of coming between my MIL and my DH - even if she can be a bit annoying at times!

My MIL was a woman who had a very difficult life and she was a very difficult woman. She found me to be a very difficult DIL. For the most part we managed to rub along. The day we were out and she dropped by and looked in all the windows to check on my housekeeping as reported by my SIL was a highlight ;). But she had no power over us.

My FIL and his evil wife? There was no slack to be cut there, they were terrible human beings. I am so glad that when FIL died and DH wanted to fly over to the funeral I was able to persuade him not to. StepMIL told his siblings at the funeral they were banned from the wake. When our baby died and DH rang his father to give him funeral details, his father said why was there a funeral? Can't they just put the body in a random adult coffin? His mother was with us within hours and heartbroken and difficult but she was with us.

I married late - early forties and had sat through friends moan about their in-laws and I was determined to 'not' be that person. I was lucky to have friends of all ages, so how hard could it be? Then I met my MIL.

We had an awkward first meeting, it was an event that my DH's ex and her DH were attending. DH and his ex were friendly despite her having an affair and leaving him for the man she married. MIL sat holding the hand of the ex all night, weeping and telling everyone this woman is a second daughter to her. She bately spoke a word to me even though DH had told her we were serious and he lived me. However, she did tell me she would never visit us in London Never. We lived there for 10 years and she kept her word.

We moved not far from her but she is not really interested in the children. Tells DH to visit alone. She only has eyes for her precious son. I have tried so hard, just be nice, just letting all the snide comments wash over me and her only speaking her language in front of me. I rarely visit now. I tell my DH that I don't need to feel excluded, I can stay home alone and enjoy some solitude. OP its been 14 years.

When we first moved here I met one of her friends, who was initially frosty but I have got to know independently as she looks after her grandchildren and often collects or drops off from our play dates. Without being disloyal to my MIL she said my MIL had done me a disservice and said her reaction was about the role of DIL not personal. 14 years.

But in a way you are right, I do suck it up. She is on her own now. My SIL lives 6 hours away , so MIL will be collected and dropped off half and each way on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day because she refuses to stay in our that house, get a taxi or drive after dark.

I will make a big fuss over the two traditional dishes she brings and will ignore the fact she turns her nose up everything else. I will.make a big fuss over the gifts she brings and grit my teeth at the dismissive 'but what is it and what am I supposed to do with it' comments are the only things she says in English before reverting back to a language she knows I do not speak. I never wanted it to be this way, its sad because now she is older and I could help her. I look at the lovely relationship my mum has with my SIL and its sad but I suppose everyone is different.

I don't know. I get the thrust of what you're saying OP, but i think you're coming at it strangely.

The term 'Parent in law' simply covers the description of how people are related to other people. Why should a relationship status afford people 'slack'?

If in the OP you replace the term PIL with DH it illustrates the point. Imagine reading ''Husbands should be given some slack, it's all too easy to bash them''.
Most people would just rightly ask - who is this 'them'? Who are 'husbands'? Husbands are good hearted people, serial killers and everything in between. Just like PILs.

I agree with a pp who said there is a fascinating dynamic between DIL/MIL.

The best known cliches involve jokes about men and their MILs, when in fact the more crucial and delicate relationship is between the two women; DIL and MIL. Their dynamic can make or break the harmony within a family completely.

It's not surprising that when women gather they'll moan about family stresses and it's better to vent about your partners parents out of said partners ear shot really.

I was in a very expensive shop about to buy a lot of gift vouchers for my DIL. I queued up to pay and over heard the lady in front complaining about christmas with her boring in laws. The shop assistant commiserated and helpfully pointed out that nobody likes their in laws.
When it was my turn, i told her why i would not be spending the £100 I had planned on spending and would be going to John Lewis instead. The other assistants/ manager heard. She was mortified and tried to apologise saying that she had spoken without thinking.
i always think of it now as the shop that hates MILS

Some of us have genuine reasons for hating our MIL. Yes she is my DH mother but she doesn't deserve that title either. I actually gave my MIL chance after chance because I felt MILS in general were given a hard time. More fool me.
My FIL and his wife are an absolute dream so I guess it's swings and round abouts in my case.

I know more women who are hostile towards their mil than I do mils who are hostile to dils.
It seems to be ok for a woman to need her mum but bad for a man to need his.

I'm with you OP. I think a lot of the issues between PIL and DIL or SIL comes from insecurities on both sides. PIL are going to worry about the child they have raised and love and the partner may feel insecure about the relationship about that their DH or DW has with their parents. They are going to see the responsibilities and the relationship from an outside point of view and because there will be differences in how each family do things and what is considered normal, there may be conflict and confusion.

My family is large and overbearing, everyone knows everyone's business and there will be 1001 comments and remarks about how you should dress, keep a house and raise your children. They will tell you this to your face and we often argue because we're all loud and outspoken. But no one is offended by you telling them where to go, or well this is the way I'm doing it, if it doesn't work I'll think about doing it your way. Disagreements are common but no one takes anything personally unless you are personally attacking them rather than the idea/advice/suggestion, but because we're so loud and often sarcastic newbies are scared to say no or that they disagree. And my family use this to wind people up.

We're also a family of huggers and a family that will even after a row hug and say how much you love each other. We're the family that takes an hour to say goodbye because you hug and kiss everyone before you leave, and if you don't want to hug or kiss anyone, you will big hugged and kissed instead (obviously if your not ok with it they won't but if your just awkward about initiating it they'll do it for you).

We're a lot to deal with and as an outsider daunting/terrifying and I know one of my BIL still finds it so. Because his family don't like each other and never speak to one and other unless they want something.

And there are aspects of my family I don't like and probably wouldn't choose, as a whole I love it so much. I could call anyone in my family and say I need you and someone would turn up ASAP and keep me on the phone the entire way so I wasn't alone (I live four hours away) with no questions asked. If I'd had an argument with anyone in my family and anyone family or not tried to talk shit about me, the person I'd argued with would jump to my defence. Because we can call each other names and row, but that doesn't give anyone else the right to and even when we 'hate' each other, we love each other fiercely.

I know should I have a baby my mother would insist on at least being in waiting room, ideally in the room with me and while I have no idea if that is what I want. I wouldn't stop her. I'm her child and her reasoning is that the husband is there to worry about his baby, she is there to make sure HER baby is ok, the grandbaby comes second to her. And I have a lot of complex medical issues and having someone like her in my corner is amazing. I would have no issue with PIL waiting in the waiting room but I'm not sure if I'd want MIL in the room with me as I don't have one but if I had a good relationship with her I'd consider it, but I would wonder WHY she'd want to watch that.

I also know that because of how my family is I'd struggle with adapting and acclimatising to how my DP's family works as a unit, because I am aware my family is atypical for most families to be judged against, but I'd do my best to fit into how they work in their home just as I'd expect DP to fit into my family at theirs. Between the two of us I'd expect us to take the bits we like best from both and merge them into one. I am also aware and understand that if I get with the guy I've a complicated relationship with that I'd do more to get him to speak to his parents because he doesn't like communicating without a point to the conversation whereas I talk to my mum and my siblings and their everyday, even if it's just a message to tell them that I love them. I know he loves his parents and when I asked how often he tells them that he told me, maybe I tell my mum once every 4-6 month depending if I've needed to talk to her, my dad birthdays and Christmas, and the same with his siblings who he says he never says it to, but he signs their cards that way. I know there is no underlying relationship issues here other than him being so bloody british and his 'pragmatic' I'll only message or call if I need to.

I don't understand how some people can hate their PIL's with such a passion when you love the person they created and raised. It's all about compromise and understanding each other as individual people and how their families work as a unit, and where you fit into that. If your unsure as to what your role is insecurities and hostility builds up making the entire thing more difficult than it needs to be.

My in-laws are lovely, I love having Christmas with them. I have always made sure all grandparents are equal. My husband's mil is hard work, and fortunately most of the negative comments are directed at me, so he doesn't cop too much.

My PILS are lovely and I'd happily seee more of them. I love our family summer holidays when we're all in summer houses within walking distance of each other.

My previous PIL were awful, she was the bitch from hell and he was so detached from everyone he might as well not be there. SIL and her husband were v close to them and old fashioned. (MIL told me how upset she was we were engaged when we went to see them after getting engaged and came to stay when I and newborn twins went home from hospital despite us clearly stating we wanted to be alone. She got FIL to dismantle my nursery and reinstate the double bed in that room so they could stay).

YABU.

Every PIL/DIL/SIL relationship is different, so no generic slack to be cut.