Or is my 4 year old neurotypical?

[onemorestepalongtheworld]

Hi everyone, this is a very long post so I do apologise, I have posted before about this under a different name, but a couple of months down the line and I'm starting to think I am reading into things that are just totally normal for a 4 year old. My son started school in September and they aren't concerned at all and haven't seen a lot of the things on my list, my husband, mum and best friend are the only ones who recognise there may be differences to the typical 4 year old. I am fully prepared for you all to tell me I am being unreasonable and need to get a grip!! Maybe it's what I need to hear. Ok here's my list;

Licks things (not all the time but more often than other children his age and younger)
Puts things in mouth
Eats inedible things (play dough, flour, glue)
Likes being squeezed/tickled/lots of pressure
Very ticklish
Seems to find touch on his face/neck painful
Asks people to repeat themselves when speaking (had a hearing test, all fine)
Upset by loud noises but happily makes very loud random noises (excitable screaming and shouting)
Distracted by slight noises/movement
Not dry at night
Pooing in sleep at times (when potty trained at 2.5 had fear of pooing so held it and used to go in his sleep every night, finally got rid of the fear but still sometimes going in his sleep and not always recognising the urge to go in the day)
Difficulty falling asleep (still awake at half 10 some nights just laying in his bed)
Says the bath is hot/burning him when it’s just warm
Sucking his skin/clothes at times

One sided conversations
Ignores questions and starts his own conversation
Won’t always look at/speak to even people he knows (does give very good eye contact when comfortable)
Can come across very rude ignoring people
Repetitive routines (started as a young baby, 11 months old would go upstairs to the same room every night to get the same book for months)
Can get very angry and lashes out if someone says something he disagrees with
Doesn’t show emotion when saying some things (‘you are going to die and I won’t have a mummy’)
Difficulty following new instructions, has to be shown what to do
Can take things very literally and has said things at school such as ‘you’re the adult I’m the child, you need to help me’ ‘I don’t need to do that I’m only 4’
Doesn’t like people looking at him and gets embarrassed
Strong emotional attachment to things such as a coat, random items of clothing.
Emotional attachment to anything linked to being a baby

Clumsy
Lack of spatial awareness
Messy eater
Struggles with fine motor skills
Forgets routine daily tasks
Random bursts of energy especially when in a new place or when someone comes to the house
Always on the go but can be totally absorbed in certain tasks
Fidgeting
Picking nails

Obsessed with certain books/characters
Intense role play, takes on the role very seriously
Very good long term memory
Doesn’t show a lot of emotion/affection towards people (but has recognised facial expressions in pictures since around 2 years old)
Very matter of fact
Doesn’t notice if someone is upset or try to help them unless prompted
Almost robotic with saying sorry/comforting people (learnt behaviour)
Sometimes laughing when told off
Can be very sensitive to change and people he’s not comfortable with (having said that he can adapt well to new situations, especially with a lot of preparation)
Would rather stay at home most of the time
Over the summer holidays he totally fell apart without the structure of going to preschool every day, all of these behaviours were exacerbated. *

He has a weighted blanket and meditation at bed time. I use visual cues and social stories to prepare him for things. He met all of his milestones at the average age.

look up SPD sensory prosessing disorder

@TheFormidableMrsC I think what I'm realising is that I've got a long road ahead of me.. because even if there is no diagnosis we are still having these difficulties and have already had so many battles with school.. and he's only been there 2 months!!

It is a long road OP, all depends on what authority you're under. I don't know if you are able to afford a private diagnosis but obviously that will be very quick. It was about 18 months from start to finish for us but I know now that even assessment waiting lists can be 2 years. I'd do a bit of research, look up local FB groups etc. I notice that @tor8181 has mentioned Sensory Processing Disorder which my DS also has and agree, research this too...there are lots of management strategies out there for that. It is a pity the school can't be more supportive but I do know their hands are largely tied until they have a diagnosis in front of them. Very difficult.

It's so hard to say as everyone is different! My ds had a lot of those behaviours but socially was just uninterested in his peers. The school didn't think autism and neither did I but turns out it is. For your son it may or may not be. If leave it for now if it's not causing him issues and see what happens in the next year or two. If it is aspergers like my son is (not a separate diagnosis anymore) then it sometimes isn't entirely obvious until a bit later on

@TheFormidableMrsC Was your diagnosis private? The senco did say that the council doesn't accept all private diagnoses and did say he might be too young even to assess privately! So it's hard to know what to do. I have looked into sensory issues, that's where I got the idea of the weighted blanket from, I did ask the gp for an OT referral and she said they don't refer to the OT 🤔

You can go through your GP for assessment/diagnosis. They will refer you to community paediatrics.

take your list to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician for assessment for autism. there is usually al ong waiting list so you wiull regret it if you put it off.

we are just entering the 25th month of bieng on the waiting list. we had forms and sent thoose back but now there is another month or so to eait until we get an appointment.

No it wasn't. My son was referred at his 2.5 year check. To clarify, I have a 13 year gap between my two and I knew that there was something wrong as son had displayed the most unusual behaviours even as a newborn and obviously as an already experienced parent, I knew something was amiss but autism hadn't crossed my radar at all. Very on the ball HT said that she was referring straight away. I don't know where you live but here (I am in Herts), private diagnoses are accepted and indeed it is usually the same paediatric consultants covering both sectors. I absolutely do not agree with the Senco saying 4 is too young, I am not sure what she bases that on. You would get a referral to an OT via the process, at least son did but again, the OT needs a diagnostic basis to work from if that makes sense? I think you carry on with the strategies you have in place currently and chase the assessment. Certainly, you have nothing to lose by enquiring about private assessment. No harm in asking? Just as an side, I note you have the chewing issue too. I bought son a product called a "Chewigem" which has helped a lot. Have a google.

Oh wow 90% of the things you listed my 4.5 DS does as well!
His teacher just referred him to the school’s SN team and I suspect he has mild autism. Very interesting thread for me.

OP one of mine was diagnosed a month after his third birthday, the second two months before his third birthday and DD at two and a half. So too young isn't an issue in your case,

@BlackeyedGruesome went to the gp first week of September, school and I filled in forms, still not heard anything

@TheFormidableMrsC thank you for the background and the info. I've heard a lot of good things about the chewy toys, I definitely need to look into this!

No problem, happy to help. PM me anytime if that would be of any use

Sorry I’ve not rtft, just wanted to say by your OP I’m leaning more to dyspraxia than ASD. I have a son who’s autistic & a sister who has dyspraxia & it sounds to me more like dyspraxia. I think you should push GP for a pead appointment & go from there. It’s a long process for a disagnosis but in terms of helping with these behaviours you can do all that without a diagnosis anyway. You sound like a brilliant mum btw.

Thank you so much to everyone for the lovely comments, I now feel a total fraud! I am a pretty average mum (slightly rubbish one at times 🙄) but I just like to be armed with knowledge so do a lot of googling and pick up tips along the way! Thank you so much for all the helpful advice! I will keep pushing for the referral and just wait and see how it goes as my son gets older. Dyspraxia is definitely something I'd be looking at due to my brothers diagnosis of dyspraxia!

Can dyspraxia be diagnosed at 4? If I were to go privately would it be to an OT and can they diagnose sensory issues? Not finding much on my beloved google!

I went private, to an OT, and my son has a diagnosis of SPD. OT was amazing, worth every penny and more besides.

Yes SPD can look like anxiety and autism, but your OT will be able to explain everything.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in the comments but this sounds identical to two kids I know who have Sensory Processing Disorder. Could take a while for the school to pick up on it as the typical behaviours are so similar to other things. Its where the child can't appropriately interpret sensory input, it all gets muddled up in their brain and they can't figure out an appropriate response to stimuli, for instance not talking or answering someone back could be because they are trying to figure out if they know that person and also processing what the person has said, and on top of that trying to think of a response. They can also crave certain stimuli too like loud noises or pressure. There's a good book called 'the out of sync child' which you might like to read. There was another thread on here last night that I thought sounded like SPD too.

@witchy89 thank you, someone else mentioned that book so I will look into that!! It would make so much sense!

@picklepost it's just so hard to know what to spend the money on, we can't really afford private but would save up if we knew which to go for, OT or private autism diagnosis!

*assessment I mean not diagnosis

I work in the field (not diagnostic though, to be clear), and of course nobody can give you a decent answer without meeting him - but this list is full of traits that would fall into diagnostic criteria for autism. As PP have said, individually these things are not concerning, but combined they paint a wider picture of sensory and processing issues. I would like to also echo PP and say you sound like a fantastic mum and are supporting him brilliantly. I would like to reassure you too, that you can continue to support him in this way and pursue an assessment without worrying that you are masking any possible conditions. A good diagnostic team will take a good history from you and will assess on the basis of tried and tested methods. Let’s say if you did a social story for him before the assessment, for example, it wouldn’t actually make a difference to their findings but would make it easier for him. Explain to them the social stories and other things you’ve provided for him and why. I have a son with autism and support him in many many ways. We can still see, and so can his teachers and therapists, that he has autism. The key is that he’s really happy and absolutely thriving, we’re not actually masking his condition.

Oh and just to add, go to your GP and tell them you want an assessment, don’t worry about going via the school. If they refer for an assessment then the diagnostic team would go and observe him at school anyway.

Yes, dyspraxia can be diagnosed at 4, cos DD1 was. A private OT can do it.

Madeleine Portwood and Amanda Kirby have written good books on dyspraxia. Jean Ayres came up with the original ideas on sensory processing disorder, and you can read bits of her work on the internet. The Out of Synch Child is a good book.