To move to put distance between DS and EX-P

[msatlantis]

Bit of background - I was in an emotionally abuse relationship during which I became pregnant. 5 months into my pregnancy I found the strength to leave now ex-P (thank goodness).
Ex-P classic narcissist, passive-aggressive, gas-lighting etc.

When I broke up with ex-P he effectively made me homeless and I spent months 6 and 7 of my pregnancy flitting between friends houses and air b&b accommodation until my maternity leave started. I had my DS in Scotland where my family are and stayed in Edinburgh until I had to return to work. Ex-P refused to see DS until he was 4 months old. Did not want to be named on birth certificate. Contributed nothing to DS upkeep until I contacted CMS which then prompted a flurry of action (which, I suspect may have been to do with his very high profile public-life job).

Current situation - DS in now 2.5 and a happy little boy. He lives with me full time. We have a house in Surrey. I have a new DP who is wonderful. Ex-P also lives in Surrey (20 minute drive).

This has allowed Ex-P for the past year to visit DS on a weekly basis with me present.
For the past two months, ex-P has started to see DS on his own (though his partner is also always present) every Sunday. Sometimes Ex-P's parents are around too (who I have remained on very good terms with). All fine.

Yesterday (Sunday) when I picked up DS an argument ensued. Ex-P started asking about seeing DS on Boxing Day. I explained that we were not due to return from Scotland until 6.30pm and it would likely be 7.30/8pm by the time we got home so there would be no scope for a visit on Boxing Day. I put DS in the car at this point. Ex-P started then banging on about how I needed to be 'more enthusiastic' about him seeing DS and more accommodating; how he could start taking DS overnight on occasion, and how I never prioritise him (ex-P). I said the overnight stay was something we could work toward, but once DS was sleeping well in a single bed (he is still in his cot). DS then started getting agitated in the car so I said to ex-P - I have to go now. Ex-P looked at me in rage as I turned to go back to the car, started shouting about how he 'has rights' and then slammed the door (not in my face, but at my back). I wish I had just left, but I was angry and I rung ex-P's doorbell. A further heated exchange ensued for a minute or two and then I left to get into the car - cue further door slam.

By the time I got into the car I was shaking.
I am so angry at ex-P, but also with myself for rising to the exchange.
I spoke with Ex-P's mum last night and she had also been subject to a torrent of verbal abuse, sulking etc yesterday. I told her I intended to email ex-P to let him know that his conduct was not acceptable etc. She advised me to let him stew for a few days before contacting him. So, I am trying to gather my thoughts.

Ex-P is really not a nice person. He is DS's father but I feel it is in DS's interest that the time spent with DS is limited for DS's sake. Ex-P is not a role model. Ex-P has never been anything but gentle and patient with DS, but he does have a horrible aggressive streak particularly with women he knows well and yesterday brought this back to me. Now Ex-P wants to spend more time with DS and is talking about sleepovers. I desperately want to avoid this though perhaps it is inevitable.

It would be difficult for me to return to Scotland as my job is very much London based, as is my DP's and we quite like living down south.

AIBU to think that moving an hour/90 minutes away may help to limit the regularity of ex-P's contact with DS? About 5 years ago I lived in Hertfordshire and loved it. Herts is also closer to DP's family who are lovely. It would mean a 60 minute drive to take DS to see Ex-P, closer to 90 minutes if the traffic was bad. Would the extra travel be fair on DS - if I felt it was in his best interest? I only rent my current home and have no family myself in Surrey (which is hard in itself). DS is not at school yet so there would be no disruption in that sense. Am I overeating off the back of a bad day? But the door slam has brought old feelings and bad memories to the surface. I feel my protective intuition kicking in.

Would you consider moving back near family for support?

I wouldn't mind moving back to Scotland for support from my family but due to the nature of my job it might be difficult to find work. It would also mean uprooting DP and moving away from DP's family. I also think Ex-P's parents would be devastated.

Or flip side is that he would have ds for longer and more overnights if you moved.

Would you trust ex mil to have ds overnight as a start?

Your son has a right to a relationship with his father. You say he takes good care of him so if you are looking to move then overnight stays will become necessary. Christmas is traditionally shared between parents if it goes to court. I think you need to let things calm down and relook at contact arrangements.

I don’t think your ex p is unreasonable in trying to make arrangements to see his son over the festive periods, it’s only 4 weeks away.

And I think you will need to get your head around your son staying over night with his dad.

Moving isn’t going to solve anything.

How does your DS get on with his Dad - all the rest really is immaterial to this point

Allthewaves - yes I would trust exMIL to have DS overnight.
Perhaps this is the starting point.

While I think that Ex-P would never be aggressive toward DS; I don't know whether he would think it acceptable to be aggressive in front of DS toward other people (his partner, his DM). And that bothers me.

Ex-P's egocentricity means he always comes first. This worries me. He has little genuine compassion for others.
He also has a habit of collecting expensive/large things/animals but then not looking after them.
Would he comfort DS in the night if he was upset? Would he respect the routine? Is DS wanted to speak with mummy would he let him call? I'm not sure and it makes me uncomfortable.

If you took the aggression out if the exchange you had I'm afraid you do come across as unreasonable. If this went to court you would already be on overnight contact eow and yes he would be having his son on boxing day. You need to re-think before it goes to court and then it really will be out of your control.

DS gets on fine with his dad. As far as I'm aware. I don't know what actually goes on now when Ex-P sees DS. DS is starting to chat but isn't properly conversational yet.

Thanks for taking the time to respond everyone.

Living further away would increase liklihood of over nights imo

ArnoldBee, the aggression is the point of the post.
That's why I feel uncomfortable. The aggression and Ex-P's history of emotional abuse.

I think perhaps living further away may increase the chance of nights. Would a fortnightly sleep over be any worse/better than living close by. I don't know. I am just struggling to come to terms with yesterday and I think this is probably the classic 'flight' response.

But he hasn't demonstrated any abuse to your child? Pretty much unless he has abused your child and even then courts make interesting decisions he will be on eow and boxing day this year. I would seriously advise you to take control by revising the access situation before it is taken out of your hands.

So you went to pick your son up from his father who by your own admission is nothing but kind and gentle with him. He asked if he could see him over Christmas, you refused. He asked if you could be more accommodating about access (most couples share Christmas or take turns about) he reminded you that he has rights as his father and would like overnights, he closed the door behind you, you then went looking to continue the argument by ringing his door bell and you are angry at him.

Can you see how that would look in court if it ever got to that stage? You need to separate how you feel and how badly he treated you from how he treats your son and how important that relationship will be to your son as he gets older. Your son will love his dad no matter where you live.

YABU.

But you were aggressive in going back and ringing the door bell so that you could shout at him. He had closed the door after you had turned away and were walking away from the house - so not in your face and not on his child - but you went back and rang it again. Why??

Let the boy have a relationship with his father. If you are not in the picture his father may be perfectly fine with the child - especially if his new partner is nice. It seems that you too wind each other up and that is part of the problem.

Put something in place so that there is regular contact and when your DS is 15 or 16 and his dad has another child maybe who is successful/loved he will be part of that too - rather than looking on. If he decides as an adult that he does not want to know his father then he has that choice.

Would you want to be so far away from DS overnight? At least if you start overnights you are on hand if there's problems

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback and I think you are right that separating how I feel about Ex-P and how Ex-P has treated me from how he treats DS.

The matter will never go to court because that would mean DS's existence being made public which Ex-P would not be happy about... the press would have a field day reporting on the background and Ex-P would likely lose his job.

MrsReacher - at no point did I shout. And Ex-P slammed the door, rather than closed it.

GreenTulips - this is a good point, thank you.

Well if he doesn't want his son publicly acknowledged........you hold the cards.

As arrangements have already been made for this Christmas...boxing day isn't possible...but he can see him on.the 27th.

Next year...some advanced planning will help.

Sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other to me. If you didn’t want him to be involved with his son then you shouldn’t have claimed support from him, and just gone it alone instead. But that ship has sailed so what’s most important is doing what’s best for your son, and that means laying off the doorstep rows.

Moving further away will mean he has longer spells at his father’s, with more need for overnights not less. It also makes it harder for him to have a relationship with his grandparents who sound as though they are reasonable and supportive of you. Can your son perhaps have overnights with his grandmother at first, and see how that goes?

As for Christmas, most people share it in some way - if you’re going to be away then you need to make sure your ex gets some access either before or after. And you should have sorted this out much earlier, it’s pretty late in the day for him not to know what the plan is.

Sandy - he could see him on 27th but he has chosen to work that day and the 28th is his partner's birthday so he has elected to spend the day with her which is up to him. Christmas arrangements were put in place a few months ago; at which point DP seemed happy enough about seeing DS on 27th. That's obviously now changed.

Jenny - I claimed support from him for DS, not for me. This was at a time where Ex-P refused to see his son. But yes, the ship has sailed.

I think an overnight with his grandmother is the starting point.

I think you're being unreasonable.
He's right he does have rights to see his child, have overnights and have him during Christmas time.
Rather than alienating your child from him for your own feelings, have a contact arrangement in place. You don't want your son to turn around in 10 years and accuse you of keeping him from his dad and plus what happens if he has more children and then your son feels left out.

I would also consider how you would feel if you were him and your son was moved 90 miles away from you. You would be unhappy I'm sure.

Also if you move that distance away I would expect you to have responsibility for drop offs and pick ups as that was entirely your choice to move.

Don't be ridiculous!!

OP if this went to court he would more than likely get EOW and alternate Christmas and birthdays. You say he won't go to court because of his job you realise family court is private?? So no press and no risk to his job.

I think as PP's point out you need to separate your feelings about your ex from your son. I know it's really hard, but lots of people are shit partners but good parents and that is important to recognise.