To give up my job and set up as a painter decorator?

[sundayopening]

I have a crappy job, and although the annual pay is ok, I have to work anti-social hours away from home (but also have a lot of downtime in-between shifts). The job has no prospects at all, and is low paid - but I get a shift allowance. I currently earn aprox £21,000 pa with this job (I do work in a different field in my 'downtime' so have additional income to live on).

Although I am pretty well educated, I have no real 'proper' work experience (I have always worked, but odd self-employed things - I have been lucky with some great jobs that I have loved) but none look good on my CV for a professional/office job..

I would like to adopt in the near future (I am single & no other children) so will 100% need to change my current job if I am to do this plus earn enough for us to live on.

I have been musing about becoming a self-employed painter/decorator/tiler. I haven't much experience (although I have done most of my home/every home I've ever lived in myself) but I am sure I can learn, I'm pretty handy/skilled in other areas of art/craft.
I can also do flooring/shelves/flat-packed furniture/wallpapering no problem.

I have a degree & masters which is in the visual arts, and lots of knowledge of design/colour etc which might help with client relations etc.
I work neat and tidy, reliable and like to crack on with a job and am personable, so hopefully those traits will earn me repeat custom/recommendations.

I live in the SE, but a comfortable bit rather than a posh bit, although there's plenty of older money around. I'm hoping the type that need their houses decorated!

I could start the business alongside my current job for a couple of years if needed to build up my experience & client base etc. I have been self-employed most of my adult life so keeping books, HMRC etc isn't an issue.

I will need an income of £25k min or £30K to be comfortable, and preferably be able to do some/most school pick-ups and some/most holidays.

I am thinking £150 - £200 pd could be achievable, with very little initial outlay or running costs.
Anyone got any thoughts on how realistic this is, and how difficult it might be to get started?

I guess it depends who your customers might be and their expectations. For £200 a day id expect a superb finish, done quickly by an experienced P&D who is qualified. Wouldn't you?

And I would expect them to not fit me in around the school run!

The basic idea seems OK if you have flair for colour and can do the actual work to a good standard. Doing it day in day out will be tough to begin with at least. I think where you will fall down is the £25-30K and maintaining it with a child on your own.
Adopting could land you with a child who has significant problems which could severely mess up your plans for working reliably.

My dad was a decorator who spent many years learning his trade. It really isn’t as simple as people think.

I think in order to make this work financially and logistically you might be better off leaning on your design skills and maybe teaming up with someone else to do more of the physical work. If you can offer a full interior design and decorating service then the finances start to stack up if there are enough people within easy travelling distance to support that business. This is with the caveat that you’d need to start off building a portfolio with part time work at a lower hourly rate, which you’ve already taken on board and some people seem to have missed.

My partner's a P and D and I'm not denying it's not hard work and he definitely deals with trickier jobs than the standard DIY stuff but I think it's a bit daft to suggest you need years of experience! He started working with a family friend but he reckons you can easily start off yourself as long as you're careful about what jobs you take on initially. Also it is quite physically hard work but you'll get used to it. There is definitely a big market for female tradespeople I'd go for it.

I don't want to be a cowboy tradesperson, no-one who knows me, or the way I work in my other jobs, would ever accuse me of that.
I just think it is possible to learn a trade like painting and decorating, I don't think you need 20 years experience before you can call yourself a painter/decorator.
I do like the idea of being a handywoman, but would like that would be spreading my skill set even thinner.
All the people who don't think you can earn £150-£200 pd (gross) are living in a very different part of the country to me, or move in different circles as i know lots of people who pay that here -I agree they might not want to pay ME that!-
I assume that I would find out pretty quickly whether I was talented in this area or not, and with little risk (as I've said before, I would hope to do it PT for a bit)
I forgot how heated the replies on AIBU are! -or am I just one of this arseholes who can't be told-

strike through fail!

Have you taken into account that many people will not pay you on time if at all?

There was a thread on here last week cheering on a woman who admitted a tradesman has done a good job not paying him because she thought he had made too much dust.

I don't want to be a cowboy tradesperson, no-one who knows me, or the way I work in my other jobs, would ever accuse me of that.

In your op you suggest setting yourself up as two skilled trades - a tiler and painter and decorator, despite never serving an apprenticeship in either (two years minimum, each) and charging top whack. Whether you want to be a cowboy or not thats what you'll be.

OP you can pass adoption financials on the dole FFS 😂 have you even looked in to it properly?

Also £150-£200 per day?! 😭😂

Crying laughing at that.

And yes OP you would be a cowboy. Also you'd have fuck all idea about actual decorating, prep work, suitable materials for different surfaces etc etc.

Get real. Go to college then come back.

I pay £150 a day plus for a decorator because I know they’ve invested heavily and got all the tools they need for a job. A few brushes from Wilkos and a small step ladder won’t cut it for me.

From recommendations i also know they’ll have experience to deal with my wonky walls.

Sorry but I don’t want you learning whilst I’m paying you for a job

For me the biggest issue you will have is thinking you can knock off in time to do school pick up and still ask for £150/£200 a day. If you charge a day rate you do actually need to work a full day. Or is it your intention to start work at 7am to get your day in? I'm
Not sure how that would go down with many people.

Like many people who rely on a job that requires 'skills' you need to build up your experience and often you do that by work for free/cost/low pay. That's fine for some things like maybe a cake decorator who can do the job while maintaining a full time job until they have developed the skills/portfolio to justify the rates required to do a job for a living.

I think you need to be more realistic but if you are then you may well be successful so good luck op.

How about an evening class in P&D outside of current job?

Hmm on the fence. I've had terrible quality work done by professional tradespeople with decades of experience, so it's possible you wouldn't be any worse. I would actually pay more to have a reasonable woman to deal with rather than the often sexist, patronising men who seem to be the usual type. Having said that, you might as well do a qualification, why not - if you can guarantee that as a woman you will be treated equally by the men who presumably will teach the course. Look at how female driving instructors have taken off - just a decade or so ago they were impossible to find, but there's clearly a demand for them and now there are loads.

As a working mum myself I'd also be ok with you working around school pick up.

You know you can apply for Adoption Allowance when the time comes?
Your salary isn't the issue, it's the hours/shifts.
Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Sorry to say it but you've got your head in the clouds here.

I have to disagree, I have a neighbour who used to be a farmer but couldn’t cope with the hours.

She set up as a p&d with no experience outside of doing her own places. She never lied, but showed pictures of her mums and her own house that she had done. Built up a portfolio, had a natural flair for it. It took off straight away.
She has great communication, always picks up on her work phone, always gets back to people. Oh, and always does the school run.
10 years later and she has a long waiting list.

The people saying you have your head in the clouds are naysayers. Some people hate success.

Ok so over two years ago I ditched my day job and became a painter and decorator. I had no formal training as such apart from 20+ years personal experience but I did take myself off for a month long P&D course to see if I was up to scratch (incidentally came top of class in all projects).

This sounds like a stealth boast - it's really not - but I am one of the higher priced P&Ds in my area. I am fully CRB checked, I do an excellent job, I clean up each evening and then throughly vacuum the room after work is completed which home owners love (you'll be surprised how many don't and leave dust everywhere), however there is no way I could charge £200 a day. No-one could unless they were doing things such as marble effect painting, spraying kitchen units and furniture, customised artwork, etc.

I am hugely aware that my bookings mainly come about because I am female. I have linked up with an interior designer, plasterer, gas fitter, electrician and builder so we all recommend jobs to each other. These contacts can be vital incase of dry spells.

In terms of setting up / initial outlay:-
Course to see if you'll cut the mustard = £2,000 approx.
Public Liability Insurance = £150 approx PA.
Tool insurance = mine is linked to my PLI.
Tools = £500+ (Don't buy cheap, they break but this is on-going).
CRB check = I think I paid £25
Contract van hire (tax deductible) = £180 per month approx.
Vehicle insurance = depends on you!
Mobile phone costs = again, depends on you.
Business cards, print = £100
Business uniform = £500 (mine is all logo embroidered)
Website, purchase of domain name and email address = can't recall exact amount, but around £200.
Facebook advertising = £??
Google ad words = £??
Accountant = £300+
Book keeper (because doing your books is a pain) = £200
Biz banking = free for 1st year, then a monthly charge.

You also need to be alert in terms of personal safety. In my more naive early days I had one man lock me in his house with him and another expose himself to me. I'm sure that s**t doesn't happen to male P&Ds so you need to very aware of your surroundings at all times and check clients out throughly via Google and Facebook.

You also can't do this part time round a full time job, it's impossible. It's all or nothing I'm afraid and you do need a good degree of fitness to be up and down ladders, etc all day. Oh and you can't get that insurance package that pays your salary if you have an accident until you've been trading for a whole year as they need to know your average income before they'll allow you to apply.

I don't want to put you off, but there is more to becoming a painter and decorator than you would think. Maybe contact a few in your area to 'quote' on work in your home so you can guage the competition and their prices and then see if a local P&D will take you on for 6 months as an apprentice to see if you actually like the job. It's not all beautiful, sometimes the work is dirty, grotty, filthy and disgusting and you have to be able to accept those days too.

Atlas I am musing, putting the ideas out there, you need some more ambition if you don't think things like this might be possible for some people.
I've done lots of jobs (as I'm sure others on here have) where I've learnt on the job, I've not been paid as much in the beginning, and I've made mistakes, but nothing reversible. I am not daft, in fact I am very competent in most things I go for because, in part, I am realistic.
It's really interesting to read the comments, because, I must confess, I didn't think it was that difficult to become a paid decorator.
I have said I am willing to spend a couple of years working PT, I was planning working with another 'qualified' decorator, getting my skill set up and learning on the job, to be honest if I can't do a pretty darn good job by then I would absolutely throw the towel in because I like work, and I like being good at work.
I don't want to reveal what other unrelated paid jobs I have previously done completely un-qualified (and done a good job of it) as some of you might pop a vein!
The school hours thing I can see might not work (but one of the female decorators I know of does this....so people it can happen).
Not everyone has to grind it out in life, some people coast along pretty fine, and they do seem the ones with a bit of arrogance/confidence, good fortune and ambition so I am not going to apologise if that's how I have come across. But I am nice really and I am not sneering at people who have worked for decades in the trade, you have to start somewhere though.
I wouldn't want to be a plumber/electrician, but I thought these were higher paid, and needing more tools/equipment? I have always assumed you need to be qualified as an electrician these days, and also as a plumber if you work with gas? I really don't want to study FT, I've done 6 years at Uni all in all!

And those 6 years were in design & fine art, (including painting, which I hope isn't a massive drip feed because I don't think they are the same at all, but you can see where there is cross-over).

My husband is a qualified Painter and Decorator with 18 years experience and employs two others. You should join the Decorators forum on fb alot of qualified and experienced decorators to offer advice and will know what you can earn in your specific area. We are in the South West of Scotland and it's 150 a day for domestic jobs per man. However he obviously earns more as it's his company and it's not just domestic work it's commercial too.

I think you could be in for a shock with how hard it is. It's not just painting and papering walls. Some days my husband still has a nightmare due to different things. Such as the joiners before him leaving coving not sitting flush and having to tape it. Paint bubbling and having a reaction to the filler under it and having to figure out what to do try get a perfect finish and stop the reaction. Do you know how to fix walls that have had plumbers electricians and joiners in wrecking them before you? Can you work at a fast enough speed to make your jobs worthwhile. If you aren't as fast as someone more qualified then your price will reflect that and you won't get the job.

You will need to open trade accounts as most customers will want you to get the materials. It's time consuming going and pricing jobs (most people want the evenings if they are working) then time to price the job up. I very much doubt many will be happy at you only being their school hours and if they are you certianely can't charge a full day rate.

There’s a lad I went to school with got fired from the local council because he’s a bit of a chancer. So then started grass cutting in his spare time, he’s built it up over three years from his solid base from grass cutting and now does fencing, decking and landscaping and has a waiting list a mile long. It’s all self taught and I’m guessing it’s because he advertises like crazy on Facebook and he’s also pretty good with the old women, they trust him and he’s one of those people who overshare their life on Facebook so I guess it’s a selling point for them. It’s all Facebook recommendations he has and he’s done really well to get to where he is without any formal qualifications and just teaching himself.

If he can do it, anyone can.

In the beginning it's also good to get on websites like my builder etc. But having a qualified Decorator you are going to work with initially is a pretty big drip feed and also obviously will help alot!