to invite you to make wild speculations about a child you have never met?

[Greensleeves]

I just want to hear your spontaneous, unfiltered thoughts on this behaviour. Child is about 7 or 8, no older.

• Goes for long walks alone, talking to self and staring at the ground.

• Picks up sweets/bits of used chewing gum off the pavement and eats them, and thanks the street for giving them something nice, berates the street for being mean if they don't find anything

• Gets hugely obsessed with odd projects for days at a time, such as shaving pieces of wood into tiny bits to make sawdust for a rabbit hutch, cutting paper into tiny squares to re-tile a doll's house, grinding up pieces of quartz to make "talcum powder"

• Steals things from shops that they couldn't possibly actually want (example: a bottle of Lipcote for making lipstick stay on longer, or hair curlers)

• Becomes obsessed with a particular friend and is possessive, exclusive and manipulative, with things like secret languages and lots of in-jokes to reinforce the friendship

• Picks at skin/chews lips/bites fingernails constantly, picks nose, has no sense of not doing these things in company

• Is highly intelligent, academically able but cries easily and gets into trouble for silly behaviour

Any thoughts?

Cross-post, thanks

Just seen the bit about wee-ing on floors and vomiting OP are you in any position to gently push parents towards getting help?

Some of that stuff (intelligent but cries easily + silly behaviour, odd projects, even picking nose etc at 7/8) sounds completely normal.

What the parents think would be key for me. If they are worried about his behaviour I would wonder about SEN. If they were not interested/bothered I might consider something going on at home.

FishCanFly, do you mind me asking whether there was any developmental issue or problems at home, or whether you think this behaviour doesn't necessarily mean cause for concern?
no issues at home, I went for long walks by myself because I wanted to be by myself only with my imagination. I picked up trash because it was more interesting than "traditional" toys. I did strange projects as well.
I wouldn't say pay no attention to this child, but its not necessarily anything sinister going on, just how a child's personality is.

does sound worrying op, although i used to pick chewing gum off the ground
but the other foibles, ,the stealing, are not normal

but why do you ask op?
is it a relative?
are their parents not listening?
have you raised concerns?

speak to school if you are concerned and parent is ignoring.

A few red flags for neglect, a few for some ASD/mental stress here.

Can anyone step in or guide parents towards support? CAMHS? A teacher?

I'm not going to do nothing, I don't think - I'll probably have a word with school.

Hmm. Some of it reminds me of the profile for Pathological Demand Avoidance which is a bit of controversial dx in itself.

Family situation isn't great, but I'm not going into detail about that obvs.

Much of the concerning behaviour could be put down to attention seeking - which can be concerning in itself, but for abuse/neglect rather than developmental problems. I say that without knowing the kid etc of course.

It should raise safeguarding concerns. Maybe the child has additional needs, is lonely, abused or neglected. It would be worrying if such behaviour had gone unnoticed at school but sometimes children can mask it for short periods.

My instinctive response (based on OP only) would be autistic or some kind of development issue, coupled with parents who are maybe neglectful or have issues themselves, unless I saw that the parents were trying to help him with certain behaviours

I agree that while armchair diagnosing is to be avoided, MN can be a fantastic resource for getting ideas, sometimes when you are too close to a situation you can’t see the wood for the trees and writing it all down for an outsider can put things in perspective.

That is in fact how I found out I was autistic (I posted a list like OP, loads of people suggested it, I was diagnosed on assessment)

Honestly something about this post makes me really uncomfortable. I don't think it's ok to ask strangers to comment on someone else's child. You're either concerned or you're not.

The last three were me as a child. I was aware from a very young age that my parents were involved in illegal activity, which is most likely where that stemmed from for me.

Apart from the stealing, eating off the floor and nose picking, you've just described me as a child. I have Asperger's. Long walks alone are heaven for anyone who finds it intolerably confusing to be around people, but I'm not sure it's socially acceptable now for a child so young to be doing that. There definitely seems to be an element of neglect there.

above all ,going for long walks alone worries me the most...the rest isni ideal-but-not unheard of(except the peeing-thats fucking odd)..back to 7-8yr old being unlookedafter for those periods suggests perhaps not technically neglect,but not looked after properly.off top of my headd..obviously

Loads of threads on here invite posters to comment on other people's children

Report it if you think it breaks talk guideline, maybe it does, I don't know. It's not gossip for the sake of it though, I assure you. I wanted the insights of other parents and that's what I've been getting.

PegLegAntoine, absolutely - I don't think DS1 would have been diagnosed as early as he was had it not been for MN. I had my suspicions much earlier, but the combined insights of MNers are SO helpful when you're not sure.

I am getting a bit tired of reading how we bracket children

Adults are hugely and widely different so why do we expect children to conform to very rigid societal , behavioural and educational norms ?

I don’t like this thread

And I hope this child is happy as that’s all that matters

Adults are hugely and widely different so why do we expect children to conform to very rigid societal , behavioural and educational norms?

'Different' adults aren't hugely and widely accepted though. Those of use who don't know how to conform are cast aside as 'odd'. I hope this child is just going through a 'phase' and this kind of judgement isn't his lot in life. The world is a very lonely place if you fail to be accepted for who you are.

If I thought the child was happy stopfuckingshoutingatme I wouldn't have posted. It's not cheap entertainment, I promise. With hindsight my thread title is a bit stupid, but as I explained that was my cruddy attempt at irony because I was self-conscious about asking people to speculate - I know it's not entirely comfortable.

I would think ASD.
The obsessive behaviour towards one person would fit a PDA profile of autism.

Attachment disorder has overlapping symptoms with lots of different diagnoses eg asd, attention deficit, pda. Check out the Coventry grid. Yes picking up stuff off the street could indicate poor supervision. Thanking the street could indicate possible fantasy land/ dissociation (comes from trauma). Eating til vomiting could indicate child not in touch with bodily sensations which is learnt from feedback from the adult. All of these together would make me want to tell somebody. I am not a professional but have a lot of experience with traumatised children.

There is more to consider than if a child appears to be happy though. Are their needs being met? Are they safe? etc

Adults are hugely and widely different so why do we expect children to conform to very rigid societal , behavioural and educational norms ?

I think not picking food off the street and eating it, not stealing, and not being obsessive and manipulating are pretty good standards to have in society. If this child is doing all these things plus more there clearly is an issue and the child and family need support.