To make my son move out?

[WeirdHandDryers]

He’s almost 18. Since leaving school he’s done nothing other than a 2 day a week college course (which has suddenly become half a day a week). He’s been arrested once for assault and once for affray - still awaiting the outcome on this one. He’s also been “spoken to” twice for having relations with underage girls (aged 13-15). He’s stolen from us, lied, takes drugs and has attacked my husband (not his dad). He sees his dad once a fortnight but won’t let him live there as his fiancé is afraid of him.
I’ve told him that he either gets a job, apprenticeship or proper college course by January or he has to move out. He’s fine nothing in the way of sorting this.
He self harms and is seeing Cahms once a week.

He goes out almost every night abd sometimes doesn’t come home until early hours meaning we can’t go to bed when we want to (he can’t have a key as he can’t be trusted). He also comes home early (6am -8sm ) meaning we have to get up to let him in. It’s exhausting me. He has no income so we’re paying for everything and he won’t even keep his own room decent, never mind help out with the rest of the house.
AIBU to actually go ahead and kick him out? He’s young in his head and I feel so guilty but I can’t go on like this. While he’s here having everything paid for etc he will never learn or have the incentive to do anything. I feel we have no option but to let him find his own way in the adult world.

AIBU to actually go ahead and kick him out?
No. YWBU to continue to infantalise him.

Ime your ds needs you now more than ever.

This is true, but you can't make someone accept help. He has done some pretty awful things (he raped a 13 yo) and at the moment mum is facilitating this.

I would try everything possible before throwing him out. You can't just go from indulgent parenting to all or nothing.

But presuming that OP had withdrawn funding, drawn up lists of chores, tried doing things together to build a relationship, set goals etc and nothing works, then it's neglectful to not enforce consequences for his actions.

Why's he self harming, OP? He sounds very troubled. I'd provide a warm house and food but no more.

He should have a list of chores to do around the house. And he should be looking for a job.Can you sit down with him and really talk to him?

His dad should step up and parent too. He's still his child.

It all sounds very hard, and I don't think there are any magic answers, unfortunately.

storm4star has got it right. Kicking someone out with no structure or job is unlikely to result in them suddenly finding a safe apartment to live in, getting a job, standing on their own two feet etc. Like storm says if he's kicked out without a plan, he most likely would sofa surf and sadly, from the sounds of it, turn to crime as well. There needs to be some kind of plan or structure in place.

If you can talk to him, I'd sit down with him and ask him what he wants for his life. Explain that this situation just can't go on, and it's unlikely to make him happy either. Does he want to be living at home in 10 years time? Or does he want some independence? What kind of job could he do? Or would he rather an apprenticeship or college course? This is the key to it.

What is his current college course and what does it lead to? Qualifications? Some courses don't have many contact hours and are actually good courses that lead to recognised qualifications that help with getting jobs. Would you be happy if he carried on with his current course and got a part time job. (It's hard to advise without knowing what the current course is.)

However, things around the home would have to change. If he wants to stay there, I think he should keep decent hours, if he can't have a key to let himself in and out, then there needs to be reasonable set times. Which tbh I would've massively struggled with at 18 (but then again I wouldn't have misbehaved to the point I couldn't have a key I think).

I don't think his room is an issue at all, it's his room, he could keep it how he likes as far as I was concerned, as long as it wasn't unsanitary. So pick your battles.

"He has no income so we're paying for everything" - that needs to stop (unless he is in full time education, when it is a bit more reasonable).

This is a make or break time in his life. He's 17/18. His life can go in different ways depending on how its handled. Tread carefully, and if I was you, I'd get outside advice, not from here. Storm is right that his life could spiral and end terribly, but equally, the current situation cannot carry on. Surely there is some way to work out, with him, a solution to this.

Does your area offer Multi Systemic Therapy (MST)?

It changed mine and my son’s relationship enormously - it was funded by the NHS and our referral was made by the Youth Offending Team. We didn’t have to wait for it at all either. It was quite the time commitment but it was utterly amazing for both of us.

Move quick if you are interested though, because you’ll need to get started before he turns 18.

More info on MST- www.mstservices.com

YABU. If you boot him out, he'll go homeless, addicted and probably criminal if he's together enough.

Interestingly, your family setup is the most common for young people ending up on the streets - stepfather who doesn't like them, mother who's 'moved on emotionally'.

I wince to say this, but call Child Services and see what they say.

Here’s a U.K. site on MST - it basically teaches you to become your child’s own therapist (because you will be their parent for life, and professionals come and go). You learn to analyse what leads up to each incident of problematic behaviour and the therapist helps you create individually tailored intervention plans. It’s a bit like CBT only you create the new patterns of behaviour and incentivise the teenager to follow them. The therapist helps you to be very consistent in your application of the new system - after a while, the new, better behaviours become habitual in the kid (and you have new tools for dealing with the bad behaviour if it flares up again).

www.mstuk.org/about/about-1

What are you thinking op ?

Why should ExH get to abdicate any responsibility for where his son is in life today because his fiancee is afraid of him?

She chose to become engaged to a man with a child. A troubled and troublesome child. A child who is now 18 and clearly needs firm boundaries and more support at holding boundaries from dad. They can't just dump it all on OP. If she can't cope with her husband doing his share of trying to parent his child, then she shouldn't be there right now imo.

Hang on -you are enabling.

He wants money -he does more in the house, keeps his room tidy, volunteers et al BEFORE any handouts he needs to be volunteering full time, doing a course or a full day of housework, garden work or volunteering. If he goes out -fine but from 10pm to 8am the house is locked up -so either back or sleep with a mate. Sleeping with a mate -tell us where and address. Else find a hotel.

Throwing him out would be out of desperation. I get that feeling, but it’s very very risky

He’s clearly not in a good place and somehow you’ll have to work from the bottom up. What are his goals and dreams? What are his worries? (You May need to really listen here because there may be childhood things that implicate you and having the humility to accept they are his experiences takes enormous courage)

Unless you know these very basic things, the solution is unknown

No, I couldn't. I'll be their parent for life, not just the nice parts.

Something is obviously wrong, rather than seeking to simply move the problem elsewhere you need to actually resolve it. He's still a child currently so you are responsible for him and his current behaviour.

How has he got to this stage?

Has he always disliked your DH?

Does he have LD?

Count - if only it were that simple raising children! That's a really nasty post!

How do you explain families with more than one kid, when one is troubled and hard work and the others are all great ..... it certainly is so much more complex than 'good parenting'.

When did all the trouble start with him (and I;m sure you;ve posted before this sounds horribly familiar)

January ? No. Why wait till January , there are loads of jobs on Indeed . My 18 yo is looking but loads of them clash with his University so not suitable , but I know they're out there.

He needs to have something in place , give him a week, no more.

No money . Give him travel+lunch.
Take everything out of his room (phone TV etc) make him clean it . If its a state you risk rodents .

I would never agree with throwing out a vunerable young adult (which is what he is) but he needs to earn his keep.

If you didn't wait up where would he go?
Why did he drop his college hours?

(How long before it is suggested he joins the Army?)

It sounds very difficult for all of you. Your DS is obviously depressed and needs help. How you get it to him is tricky. Personally I'd probably feel more able to help him while he's at home. It sounds like as well as a kick up the bum he made need practical help actually organising things. Telling him to get a job may be too vague. How about he has to do something more specific each day. For example visit the job centre, go to the town centre and hand in his CV. Do XYZ around the house.

I'll adjust what I first said. The self harming needs to be adressed. How often is it?

You still need to cut him off financially and if he gets benefits he pays some to you. Stop pandering to him. He may be self harming because he's depressed because he has no goals or prospects. A job might help him. Cut him off immediately and tell him to get a job, but he needs to see somebody about the harming because you can't help him with that. He needs professional help.

I haven't anything to add to what others have said, op, but wanted to say I really feel sorry for you in this situation and I hope a solution can soon be reached which is satisfactory to you both.

If he has been spoken to twice for inappropriate relations with children, then your son is a paedophile and a sexual predator.

In your situation OP I would make him leave the family home. So sorry you are going through this.

The UK is in the grip of a housing crisis. Where exactly are you expecting your son to go? If it’s to roll up to the local housing office or housing association and ask for a home then you are very short sighted.

I’m sorry you are going through this, but in my opinion throwing him out will only cause further problems.

I have done everything to try and help him. You name it, I’ve done it.
Council
Social services
GP
Cahms
Drug counselling
Youth offending team

A few weeks ago I was greeted by a police officer as I took my dog for an early morning walk. I then had to call in sick and spend hours at the police station. All day in fact. My other son is a dream. It’s not as simple as bad parenting.

I believe you

So do I, OP, I really do.

What does DS2 say?

On one hand I will love and support my dc to the end.
On reading this.......oh my.
I’m afraid it’s unlikely he is going to change now. He’s 18, boats have been missed.
He’s unqualified, has a criminal record, no job, no prospects, takes drugs, history of violence etc etc
I’m not blaming you as parents but the reality is rather bleak.
Yes, I’d chuck him out

@WeirdHandDryers I would get your thread moved to either the Teenagers or the Relationships boards. The folks there would have a lot of knowledge to help you process it with less judgement. Good luck. This sounds awfully hard.