To believe that people don't know about "sleep issues" past 12 months

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I'm not looking for suggestions of techniques here (I have probably tried it anyway) but just some solidarity or discussion.

My daughter is 21 months. Before 19 months she had never slept through the night. Recently she has slept through a few times but then woken at 5am for the day. I realise this is much better than some parents deal with, but worse than many. It's 1am now and she's been awake for 2 hours.

When DD was small I found people were very sympathetic if I said she was sleeping badly. But after she turned 1, it was almost assumed that she was sleeping. I stopped working because (among other things) I wasn't safe or effective functioning on disrupted sleep. But it was like people didnt believe me, thought I was exaggerating or looking for sympathy. Friends of ours (whose baby slept through 7-7 from 6 weeks) went away on holiday with us and remarked afterwards, "I didn't realise she actually does wake up every night", although I had told them plenty of times.

Alternatively people assume it must be something we have done or not done. "Have you tried ...". I think maybe some babies/toddlers just don't sleep through.

AIBU to think this can't be that unusual and people need to be more aware that it's not just parents of newborns who are exhausted.

DS1 woke four times+ a night until a year, slept brilliantly from 12-18 months, and then didn’t sleep well, frequently waking up for two-three hours for a time til he started school(ish). He still wanders into our room in the night once a week or so.

DS2 has only slept through the night before he has been ill (so perhaps four or five times), he’s 2.8 and now mostly just wanders into our room in the middle of the night and climbs into bed with us.

DD is 6 weeks. So far, so no miracles...

The “have you tried” brigade is just about as as annoying as the smug parents of sleepers. And the people who are tired because they had a late night or something? On The List. But I did have one formerly smug parent who admitted she used to blame the parents, until her second arrived and she got it.

My DD was 2yo before she slept 5 hours uninterrupted and that was after some gentle training. It was very, very difficult. I couldn’t work and some days I couldn’t drive because I was too tired. I only survived it because she was my first child, honestly I don’t know what I would have done if I had other children to look after.

She s a very good sleeper at 7yo and DS slept a lot better from birth if that helps. Personally I think it’s just luck whether they sleep or not.

Mine were like this. Eventually we went with the flow. If they went to bed at 9.30/10 they would sleep until 6ish. It was exhausting but better for all of us. Funnily enough by adolescence it meant they had more time for homework and downtime.

My solace was a Hugh Jolly baby book that said some dc/babies just don't need sleep and you may find they grow up very alert and very bright. One of mine took a first from Oxford, the other is at Cambridge. Silver linings.

I feel like I'm going the wrong direction reading these posts! Mine was a shit sleeper 0-8 months, then sleep training yielded a good sleeper until DC2 was born when DC1 was 2ish. Now 3 year old DC1 is an absolute nightmare, up at least once a night sometimes 3-4 times. I haven't had more than a 5 hour stretch of nighttime sleep for almost a year - mostly due to the 3 year old!

Everyone said this would be temporary, just a reaction to the baby, then it was just settling into nursery. Well it's been months since either of those issues emerged and it's still hell.

I'm so pleased to read that others have five and six year olds who don't reliably sleep through.
The worst point was when DD was about 18 months. I ended up sleeping on a mattress on the floor of her bedroom because she woke so much.
At five, almost six, she does sometimes sleep through. Most nights she wakes at least once. I've tried leaving her to self settle and all the other ideas from people who say "What about doing....". Truth is, if I get up and go into her and say "It's ok, I'm here, go back to sleep" she does. If I leave her, she winds herself up and gets fretful and more wakeful. I do the first because at least I get back to bed and back to sleep faster. Eldest Dd has always been a fantastic sleeper. DD2 really hasn't. I've just to operate in a sleep deprived mode (and to go to bed early!)

Hate not to give you hope, but ds 12 is a terrible sleeper. He didn’t sleep through at all until he was 4. Was more reliable by 7 or 8, but still had phases where we wakes every night. As a result my body clock is screwed! I don’t talk about it either, I think people don’t believe you or think you’re doing something wrong after the newborn stage!

That should be still has not had! His twin slept through from about 12 weeks!

I hear you too! My son was over two before he started sleeping all through the night! He woke on the hour every hour and boy was it exhausting!

He used to have a single cot bed which we even took the bars off but that didn't help! It was until we moved in with my parent-in-laws that he started sleeping through....It was like a miracle and the only thing different was that he had a double bed to himself which he clearly preferred and loved!

May I suggest that those with frequent night wakers have their ears checked.

Thank you for this post op, sorry to hear about other people’s sleep struggles but glad I am not alone. It really feel like that in real life. Honestly everyone around me seems to have such chilled, sleepy kids.
I have literally nodded along to every single post here.
I have three dcs whom I adore but can honestly say have aged me almost beyond belief. Pre-kids I naively thought you could make a child sleep (in part down to a Gina Ford fan in my family). Well, I have since learned the truth very vividly. My first , in retrospect, was actually pretty good, woke regularly until a year but then and since then sleeps like a log (up at 6am on the dot no matter what but still...).
My second nearly killed me and my dh. 3 1/2 years of constant waking, absolutely.nothing.worked. We tried everything and consistently too (for longish periods) It was the worst experience, I lost so much weight and I didn’t even need to.
Good news OP , he sleeps loads now and sleeps in and he is just 4. No idea why, just happened one night!
My 3rd and last one started out well but dear God from 4 months went downhill. At 20 months he is still waking at least 2/3 times. Again I have weaned him off bf at night, cut naps/extended naps/changed diet/he is extremely active...nope still up 2/3 times minimum.
It’s so, so hard.
And I think peoples attitudes make it so much harder. I have had gems along the lines of “you need to get tough”, “time you did something about this, you can’t go on like this”, “go with your baby and just co-sleep for an easy life” ( I would fckn love if they co slept, the key word there sleep, they don’t, instead if I put them in our bed they wake up every half hour instead of every hour and jump, headbutt, try and play......
Maybe some people mean well but do they honestly believe that you haven’t tried these things. I also have the grueling combination of children who have been awful sleepers but with bags of energy. I am extremely conscious of diet, they don’t eat loads of sugary things, lots of home cooked , healthy food. Me and my dh are...well were very physically active, we bring them out as much as possible to burn off energy. Yet I see so many sedentary kids who are way better sleepers. Me and my dh loved sleep.
I hate the implication and it’s often there that it’s something you are doing wrong. I wouldn’t dream of saying to an insomniac to try and drink more herbal tea or have they tried hot milk?
Sorry, this has turned into a rant! OP I think some people think they are helping, pre-kid people probably are scared by the truth that this could be something you can’t control and people with sleepy kids often do think it’s because of them and their great routine. Well we know the truth here and in some cases like mine there is Fck all anyone can do except try and cope and find ways of catching extra zzzzzz’s.
Or do what I do and go to bed a 7pm, I’ve got that Friday feeling already....☕️

My youngest had issues with wetting the bed at night so she was 9 before I had a full nights sleep - she has two older brothers and when they were all younger I didn't go more than 90 minutes or maybe 2 hours if really lucky without one or other of them waking me for something.

That's 13 sodding year of broken sleep. Looking back, I don't know how I kept going especially moving on to full time work when youngest was 4. Think it may be where my morning coffee addiction comes from

Mine’s coming up to a year (sympathy to all the older bad sleepers) so not quite there yet but I can’t imagine her ever sleeping through. Wakes at least 3 times a night, often more.

I’ve taken a big step back from the sleep discussions with other mums unless I know that they have shit sleepers too. If anyone asks if she’s a “good sleeper” I just tell them that we’re managing. It isn’t a lie and it shuts down any further questions.

My DS is 21 months and I think he’s slept through the night just 4 or 5 times. People also don’t believe me when I say he doesn’t sleep. It’s normal for us to get up 3 or 4 times in a night, sometimes it’s just to chuck a dummy back in his mouth or he needs a cuddle. Last night though he was up from 2am till 4 thinking it was daytime. I’m exhausted and pregnant again and pray that this one is a better sleeper!

YANBU, I completely agree with you. DS1 didn't sleep through until he was 1 then he was a great sleeper until he was 2.5 when we moved house which unsettled him, then when he was 3 DS2 was born, and that didn't help.

He does sometimes sleep through, but not reliably. He's usually up 1-2 times and on bad nights it's more than that.

DS2 is 8.5 months and sleeps through regularly!

You're not alone.

@imogentubbs how would you have approached it differently? As a ftm with a very wakeful baby I would appreciate any insights! X

It's so bloody hard. DS didn't sleep through until he was 2, and was up 4 to 5 times a night, every night. It was hellish. I worked ft, and had to commute to a second office a few times a week, and I was terrified I would have an accident. It was so hard, and parents with kids that sleep have no idea. I genuinely believe - having tried everything - that some kids sleep, and some don't. And it certain cases, there is fuck all you can do about it. On a brighter note, around 2, DS did start sleeping - and now is a total star. Excluding sickness or the odd bad dream, he sleeps through every night. It's been life-changing. (Though has not erased the wrinkles I got in the non-sleep years. But oh well.)

I agree. My DS is 2.5 and still wakes through out the night and has never slept through. It becomes easier once you don't mention it to people.

First time our daughter slept through was 3y 8m. Slept through 'reliably' from 5y and a bit. She's 8 now and still takes ages going to sleep (never before 10pm).

She has ASD and no amount of sleep training was ever going to work. Not that we ever tried much! But good to know in hindsight.

YANBU. It's exhausting and relentless.
One of mine was a poor sleeper until he was about 8.
We still have the odd night time excursions at the age of almost 12.
Tried everything.
Like other posters, don't think I'll ever have a normal sleep pattern again. Always on high alert, waiting for the feet to come wandering in.

Sorry, just realised how pessimistic my post sounds! It does get better though

You are not alone OP.

We saw the health visitor sleep ‘expert’ because DS (2.5) will sleep through one night in seven, be up 3 times 4 nights out of seven and awake for prolonged periods 2 nights out of seven. I am exhausted. They’re advice? Nothing you’re not doing, sorry. Sounds awful! Er, great, thanks...

What I haven’t managed to find out is when you get more help...I don’t want to drug my son, but I also think sometime soon I might break...

I don’t mention this anymore apart from at work when they ask if I’m ok. I make a joke of it but sometimes it is so hard to focus.

I have every sympathy OP, our 2 year old DD still doesn't sleep well, she did about a month of sleeping through after I stopped breastfeeding at 21 months but it has gone back to being pretty shit. She has her first proper illness at the moment and has not slept for more than twenty minutes for two nights in a row and DP and I are on our knees, thankfully we work from home for our own business, we would be totally incapable of working out of the home. I have arthritis and lack of sleep causes horrendous flare ups and strong painkillers don't take the edge off. I'm 23 and feel about 80, my mind is constantly foggy, I'm always aching, my memory is totally shot, hobbling and dropping things because of the arthritis. I also now have insomnia most of the time when DD does sleep and a next door neighbour doing cry it out with their new baby in the room next to our bedroom. Sleep deprivation is no joke, you cannot fathom how awful it is until you've experienced it. Sympathy for all going through it.

silkpyjamas
Sounds bloody hard, arthritis is agony. Hope it gets better for you on all fronts!

Oh yes. I agree. 9months-19monthsish were the hardest times for me tiredness wise.

Toddler years are also exhausting as you run around all day and deal with their mind games, bedtime, household jobs, working for some, collapse, repeat.

Although as they get older you can leave them overnight or just for an afternoon to have an adult nap (with close relatives/friends/babysitter) which I would recommend to retain sanity!

My 9 year old still doesn't sleep much. It is exhausting.

The Toddler Calm book starts by saying it's 40% toddlers so definitely common, and I do think it's worse when it feels like it's just you.

Lots of sympathy, does sound really tough. DS is nearly one and has gone from a couple of feeds and then straight back to sleep to thrashing round if he stays in bed with me or standing up if he's put in his cot. Not expecting him to sleep through any time soon and it does make going to work pretty tough.