To think this isn't a child behaving badly?

[ernieelephant]

My 5 year old DS is a lovely, polite and kind child. He is in year 1 and is struggling with school. His teacher says that he is bright but he struggles with confidence to complete his work and is constantly seeking reassurance and help. He attends a state primary, in a class of 30, so obviously the teacher cannot give him the time that he is asking for. This has resulted in things escalating to the point where he is becoming upset and not wanting to even try to do his school work anymore.

His teacher has said for the past couple of days that he has been unwilling to try any of the work and if it carries on he will be put onto the behaviour system. My heart breaks for him as there is clearly an underlying problem that the school aren't dealing with. He is struggling and asking for help, but instead of receiving it, it is being branded as bad behaviour. This is now impacting his behaviour at home and causing him to say that he hates going to school

Surely this is a child needing help not a badly behaved child?

Thing is, in a class of 30, if the teacher has to give your DC two minutes of her time every time he needs reassurance where does that leave the other 29 DC? She only has 30 mins to deliver the lesson - if every DC needs two minutes of her time that's double the length of the lesson! Maybe not all the DC in the room need extra time and support, but why should they be left without those things so that your DC can have all the support he needs (which sounds like quite a lot, if he needs help each and every time he's asked to do something different)? I agree that you should work on teaching him resilience. It's fine to ask the teacher for advice on how you can work together to build his self-confidence, but requiring her to drop everything and support just him is neither reasonable nor achievable when she has 29 other DC to teach.

I think it's the outright refusal that's leading this down the behavioural path, it might come across as demanding attention, maybe you can work on him being more independent at home rather than you stepping in to show him. A tutor or another way to increase his independence might help, there've been some good suggestions here. It sounds like he gets anxious if he thinks he can't do something 'right' , focus needs to be switched to trying rather than the successful outcome. Realistically if he has no known SEN issues the school can't magic up 121 support.

It sounds like they’re dealing with it really badly, poor thing. The SENco May be able to help, they often deal with anxiety. Or as pp said an ELSA, our ELSA managed to get a selective mute to talk in school!

This is incredibly sad.

Even with the best will in the world, a teacher cannot meet all the individual needs of pupils in a class of 30+ This won't change.

You can try to 'skill up' your child to deal with these scenarios as they occur. But five years old, sheesh...You can try to engage the teacher by asking what you can do to support your child. You can challenge the appropriateness of a 'behaviour system' being used to address shortcomings in provision.

You can also consider if you have any possible alternative options, private or home-education, for example.

Your child is lucky to have a parent who engaged and concerned with both their education and happiness. So many don't have anyone and will sink or swim, but much potential lost to society :-(

I agree with you. Whilst you're trying to get the school to tackle it differently, the only other thing you can do (in amongst everything else you do!) is really try and ramp up the help you give at home. If you can give a couple of minutes of your time, give him ten, or half an hour. Year 1 curriculum is pretty simple and should have been shared with you by the school. If you don't know already, ask the teacher for the main areas to focus on, and what your son's sticking points are. Build his confidence at home and maybe you can break the cycle at school. Communicate what you're doing with the teacher and maybe they'll get the message too. Good luck!

I'm with you OP. We have a similar issue with DD(7), where she's been punished a few times for instances where she doesn't understand the work. She's terrified to tell them she doesn't understand it, and now she's beginning to refuse to engage. I appreciate that the teachers and TAs are being failed by underfunded but the school run many groups for different things, so quite why there's no help in that regard baffles me. We're thinking of going down the tutor route ourselves, though TBH affording it is going to be an issue.

ReanimatedSGB, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head here. Forcing this kind of learning on children this age is a political choice - partly funding and partly a determination to make teachers prove their worth through testing kids. Both come from the government.

Your DS sounds just like my DS1. He is now in year 5. He has needed a lot of extra help and reassurance since reception.

He has got better as he has got older. He tends to need more reassurance when the teacher puts a time limit on things to try to speed the class up, or when the routine changes.

His teachers put in place a Brain, Board, Buddy and Boss system. First he has to try to think for himself, then he can look at the board/book to remind or guide him and then he can ask a class mate. He can only ask the teacher if none of the other strategies have helped.

My boy has a dx of ASD, so I think this helps the teachers to be more sympathetic to his difficulties. I think some teachers are better than others at dealing with him too. The key is to build up confidence. This means he gets lots of praise from school and home for working independently.

I hope that your lovely boy starts to find things easier really soon.

See SENCO, ask for his Processing Speed to be checked and his Executive Function skills to be assessed. That will at the least identify if he has a problem that is more than just 'anxiety'

Is the 'behaviour system' necessarily only for the 'badly behaved'? Or is it the system through which he will get help for his 'issues'/ lack of confidence? Is it, in fact, the help you are requesting but the name has negative connotations for you?
Your son sounds lovely- make an appointment to speak to his teacher and find out more about the behaviour programme before you write it off.

eernieelephant If you can afford to I would Home Educate, (we are lucky in that it's allowed in England ; take him away from all the stress of school.

A lot of children can't cope at the age of 5 its not unusual. I did it when mine had problems, they are all fine qualified adults now !!

My son was like this - it was part of what led to his eventual diagnosis of dyspraxia with sensory processing disorder. He would literally only 'get' the first in a set of instructions, then he was lost. He too didn't ask, because it got him in trouble for 'not listening'. So he'd just sit there and not do anything at all. He was also assessed for Aspergers because of his behaviour, but it was all stuff he was doing to try to cut down on sensory overload.

Lots of strategies were put in place as a result of his diagnosis, and he is now 17 and heading for A levels with great predicted grades. I'd definitely echo those who say have him checked for other things before the assumption is made it is 'just' anxiety.

christmas It's very difficult to get statements now , The schools are ridiculous to formalise learning for the children so young, they create the problems which are 'normal' in some 5 year olds and also show up SEN's but they can't afford to pay for statementing.

@Daddypigssatnav

That Brain, Board, Buddy and Boss system sounds interesting, please could you post about it on SNChat or SNChildren please, I'm sure it could help a lot of the parents on there liaise with school and ask for something similar if their kids are impulsive and want answers from the teacher as a first port of call.

I am a teacher and in my opinion a class size of 30 is far too big.
It's just not possible to give the attention that each child needs.
From a teacher's perspective it is so frustrating to not be able to do your job properly. A TA helps obviously but even so I don't think it is possible.
I know this does not help you but I know what you mean.

Yes MrsKeats I know a lot of good, kind, caring teachers who leave the profession because of the impossibility of doing the job properly. Something has to change or there'll only be bad teachers left.

I really feel for you. My DD1 (now 9) is similar to this in that she can't cope well with working independently, she craves adult 121 attention; she isn't 'demanding', she just drifts into her own little bubble, but she is behind in her learning.

And yes, you're absolutely right, @ppeatfruit getting a statement has been really hard. She's not far enough behind to qualify for an EHCP, as she isn't 2 years behind in all areas. But she's a long way behind emotionally and struggles socially. I think she's been helped in getting support because she wears glasses and hearing aids, so those needs are more obvious.

I would agree with PPs that you should ask to meet with the teacher and involve the SENCO if possible to try and work out a strategy to help your DS. Because if this is left, he could easily get further and further behind.

@BlankTimes I think Brain, Board, Buddy, Boss is fairly common. My DD is now 15, and it was used in her year 3 class.

I think you're expecting too much from a state school, unless he has SEN (in which case he'd qualify for extra 1:1 help).

Have you tried working with him at home to increase his independence and confidence?

Constantly demanding attention and reassurance isn't acceptable behaviour in year 1, the teacher has to divide her time between 30. Presumably other children also struggle and need 1:1 support and she has to juggle their needs with stretching high achievers and keeping the whole class engaged?

The OP isn't expecting too much, she's said that she's aware that it's not possible for her DS to get that much attention in a state school. She's just at a loss as to how to help him.

‘I think you're expecting too much from a state school, unless he has SEN (in which case he'd qualify for extra 1:1 help).’

The vast majority of SEN kids do not get 1 to 1.

just make sure you keep written evidence of these conversations and any strategies they try to improve things as down the line they might be needed as evidence for an more formalised support.

Id have a word or move him. As he's clearly unhappy & this could affect him long term. I used to teach. I had 4children who were a mix of insecure & had very severe learning difficulties. To boost the insecure child I seated her on a table of very kind hearted, laid back children who'd notice any angst & help/boost them up. The ones with challenges learning wise I sat nearer me & I checked them straight after every explanation then more regularly than the rest. The insecure child blossomed on a different table & no longer needed me after day or two. It's really not that hard to support different needs if you're experienced. (class of 32 seven year olds, massive differences in ability).

The teacher will demonstrate what is required, go over it again, check understanding and listen to questions.

They don't hand out worksheets and just expect them to do the work.

So is she's not listening? Talking in the carpet? Messing about?

If the other 29 kids can go and get on ..... why does she need additional instructions?

If the other 29 kids can go and get on..

Pardon!!! We're talking 5 YEAR OLDS . You think they'll ALL remember what they've been asked to do??? Even if it's in clear writing or diagrams on the board!!!

A huge number of adults walk under clear large notices of instructions in places like airports and totally ignore them, let alone 5 year olds!!!!