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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that I'm a cowardly shit not to call a mum out in a shop for being extremely aggressive to her kid?

53 replies

DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 16:42

So I'm in a tiny pharmacy, a queue of 6 or 7 people at the til and a mum (presumably a mum) comes in with a pre-teen boy, sits him at the seats by the door and then proceeds to speak to him in the most aggressive manner imaginable about not touching the button with the wheelchair motif on it, the one which potentially opens the door if you're in a wheelchair. He hadn't actually touched the button; it was a pre-emptive in case he did. But the way she said it was so unbelievably aggressive: loud, with real anger, threatening language, swearing etc. As I left the shop and drove home, I thought about all the things I could have said: "why are you speaking to your son in such an aggressive way? ....it sounds really horrible and frightening for him....I know i can't stop you from speaking to him like that but I am allowed to have an opinion on it (or am I?)....the way we speak to our kids directly affects the people they will become, and if you bring him up with aggression like that, and as a result of that he comes an aggressive adult, then society as a whole bears the brunt of that. Furthermore, if you unashamedly speak to him like that in public, God knows how it is behind closed doors..." etc. etc. But instead I said jack-shit, mainly because I'm a coward and didn't want to interfere in case that would be embarrassing for me. Is it acceptable/desirable to stand up for the weaker members of society when they are being (what seemed like) bullied? Or is it none of our business? And if it's none of our business, where is the line drawn: if she hit him? Of course I do get that she may have been having a bad day, he may have been playing up etc and she was at the end of her rope etc. But the level of aggression directed at this boy seemed really inappropriate. WWYD? Thoughts?

OP posts:
00100001 · 19/11/2018 16:47

whilst it's inappropriate to shout and swear - you have no idea what circumstances led up to this moment.
He could have been a little monster all day pushing buttons/hurting people as result etc

Approaching her and reprimanding her would not have made the situation any better, and may have made it worse - particularly for the chid.
What if she had turned her aggression on to you and he had to witness it? What if she turned back and took even more aggression out on him "Now look what you've done/ made me look like" kind of thing

SilverLining10 · 19/11/2018 16:51

What if she reacted because he did exactly that previously. He could have been a brat the entire day and this was her last nerve.

WorraLiberty · 19/11/2018 16:51

whilst it's inappropriate to shout and swear - you have no idea what circumstances led up to this moment.

I couldn't care less about the circumstances leading up to the moment.

The OP says... unbelievably aggressive: loud, with real anger, threatening language, swearing etc.

That's bullying the child. Pure and simple.

MonsterTequila · 19/11/2018 16:52

Op it would have made the situation much worse IMO....

Do you think she was going to take what you said & reply ‘rightio didn’t realise I was so agrresive, I’ll stop now’
Of course not- she would have got more aggressive at both you & him then.

Birdsgottafly · 19/11/2018 16:53

"Furthermore, if you unashamedly speak to him like that in public God knows how it is behind closed doors.."

"it doesn't always work like that. I often say" for gods sake child" to my Grandchildren, I doors, I have no reason to get frustrated.

Go on the thread about the OP that's too scared to go out because of the Teenagers. I live not far from her.

Sometimes what seems overly aggressive is needed.

The swearing isn't great and I'm surprised the Pharmacist didn't pull her up on it.

menstrualcup · 19/11/2018 16:53

It's hard to know... I find it hard but I think you may by not saying anything have prevented him from witnessing a confrontation between you and her also on top of what he was dealing with

I find it so hard hearing people swearing at their children, I have a friend who does but she swears constantly- if you know her, you know every other word is a swear word and I'm too much of a coward to tell her I think it's awful she doesn't curb her language around her children, I know her to know she's not being aggressive (intentionally) to her kids but it isn't okay in my book and I keep hoping someone else tells her - the doctor, the school, the bus driver... anyone but me

I often wonder if social workers who hear this about their daily lives step in and speak up and if I should be

I live in London though and I may get nothing done if I did... it's so common

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 19/11/2018 16:56

As long as you were prepared to get a mouthful back!

Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 16:57

I did also think about not making it worse for him by intervening, making her more angry etc.. But my main reason was (and bear in mind this all happened in a split second) that I was too embarrassed and not sure if I would be justified. But it's really not sitting right with me now that I was such a coward. Not my finest moment. I think in retrospect I could have done more.

OP posts:
FekkoThePenguin · 19/11/2018 17:00

I’ve stepped in but just to stop the flow - so asked if they have change for a fiver or knew which bus stop to get to wherever. If possible I say something nice about the kid or ‘he’s about my son’s age - they can be terrors, eh, but he looks like a good boy’. That usually breaks the rant. Unless the shouter looks like they might punch me.

Sounds like an end of thether rant.

00100001 · 19/11/2018 17:02

@WorraLiberty

"The OP says... unbelievably aggressive: loud, with real anger, threatening language, swearing etc.

That's bullying the child. Pure and simple."

Yes - but because you don't know the circumstances that led up to that moment, means you shouldn't intervene - it could cause the situation to escalate and not do any good at all.

I'm not sure what to suggest, but stepping in would not have helped.

Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:02

Fekko that's a really good idea: break the flow, but not directly challenge. I'll definitely remember that one.

OP posts:
Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:04

Got to say, I do agree with worra though: it was unacceptable, and I should have had the courage of my convictions....

OP posts:
FekkoThePenguin · 19/11/2018 17:09

Only if the shouter doesn’t look violent! I trained as a therapist and can be a bit grandpa Simpson when I get going. Very disarming!

Branleuse · 19/11/2018 17:13

What do you think you would have acheived by confronting her in front of her child?

Im just thinking of a friend of mine who is generally a lovely gentle person, but who had had it up to here with her 11 year old dds behaviour all day, and ended up shouting at her a bit in the supermarket, whereupon a woman confronted her, started shouting at what a terrible parent she was, and then told her daughter, "your mother is a terrible person"
Her daughter was terrified of the woman and really upset by it, and my friend was really shaken. All that happened was that that woman got to feel virtuous for a bit.
You honestly have no idea what theyve gone through. If that kid had gone around pressing buttons and touching things, you might also have wondered why she wasnt firmer with him

Lottapianos · 19/11/2018 17:13

'Not my finest moment. I think in retrospect I could have done more'

I have been in a fairly similar situation OP. I didn't challenge the adult either and didn't feel great about it afterwards. It's hard when you think about all the things you 'should' have said! Like you though, I wasn't interested in excusing the adult's behaviour or wringing my hands about what may have led up to that moment

I don't think there's a golden rule about how to respond in this kind of situation. Would you have made things better for that boy by challenging the adult? Who knows. You might also have got a mouthful of abuse or even a punch in the face. I don't think you've got anything to give yourself a hard time over, but I know how it feels

Lottapianos · 19/11/2018 17:14

Fekko, very good suggestion about breaking the flow

ADastardlyThing · 19/11/2018 17:17

This could have been me a few weeks ago (apart from the swearing) after having an hour's worth of shit from DS. What people wouldn't have seen is me beforehand treating him to a game for handling a personal thing so well and having it absolutely thrown back in my face and abysmal behaviour and awful attitude towards others which I won't accept.

What they also didn't see is when we got home after he had an hour in his room to reflect he had handwritten me an apology, I gave him a massive hug, then kicked his arse on said game.

Birdsgottafly · 19/11/2018 17:20

"I often wonder if social workers who hear this about their daily lives step in and speak up"

Usually only if it is severely verbally abusive.

A group of Parents dragged their Teens into a Police Station in my City, I doubt they did it quietly. The Teens have been terrorising a whole shopping area for weeks, as well as vandalising cars etc.

You might not like it, but some Pre/Teens go beyond the softly softly approach.

Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:22

Branleuse yep, your point about how it would have made the other woman feel virtuous but wouldn't have helped the situation has also expressed in words what flashed through my head at the time: did I just want to make MYSELF feel better about myself, iyswim? Like reassuring myself that I was the kind of person who stands up for a bullied child, but not actually helping the child, or the mother in reality? And in fact, is that what I'm feeling guilty about now? Like am i just worrying about what it says about me, rather than actually worrying about how that little boy is being treated? It's really hard, when you're trying to be a "good person" to be truthful with yourself about how much of that is just arrogance and a desire, even subconsciously, to pat yourself on the back.... Confused

OP posts:
Kemer2018 · 19/11/2018 17:25

Not your circus not your monkeys.

Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:26

@Branleause and @Fekko that is exactly why i think fekko's suggestion of breaking the flow is much better than my original idea of confronting her. Breaking the flow would have probably helped the mother and the child, whereas confronting would have made ME feel better/virtuous but not really helped the root of it...

OP posts:
jackieChansBedPan · 19/11/2018 17:28

Don’t beat yourself up over it donkey
Chances are you could’ve really wound her up even more meaning she took it out on the DC if you had intervened

Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:28

kemer that is actually one of my favourite expressions Grin...but I'm not sure if I really believe it. If society is the circus, then maybe the monkeys belong to all of us? Shared monkeys is what the whole criminal justice system is built upon, after all....?

OP posts:
Original poster
DonkeyHotei · 19/11/2018 17:30

Thanks JackieChan...I do agree with that too. If I was in a foul mood, and then got publicly tackled, it wouldn't put me in a better mood for sure!!

OP posts:
mygrandchildrenrock · 19/11/2018 17:33

As an ex social worker, I'd like to point out that people often say 'if they're like this in public, what are they like behind closed doors'. Usually they are no different. Parents who swear, shout, smack in public don't always have the ability to parent differently, or don't think what they are doing is anything wrong, so don't behave worse at home.
Doesn't stop what they are doing as being wrong or inappropriate.