AIBU to think this is a red flag/controlling behaviour - finances and OH

[olympicsbaby]

I'd really appreciate some sensible views please. My OH and I are considering selling our homes (he owns and I own separately) and buying a more suitable place together. He has slightly more equity than me but that's not the issue.

The issue is he has said several times he would like us both to write out/list exactly what our income and our outgoings are. I've said to him that my salary is x, my total credit card debt is y and my outstanding mortgage is z and that I am willing to borrow x amount. He knows if he asks me what is your phone bill I will tell him. I just don't see why I need to list out all my income and outgoings for him.

Of course when we go to the bank re a mortgage app we need to know our figures but I just don't see why he needs a total break down. I have nothing to hide btw!

I think part of the reason I'm hesitant is he has joked in the past that I could pay all my salary to him and he'd pay bills and invest and give me an allowance. He's also very money conscious and loves to save and invest etc. He'd said once before that when we live together/get married we'd discuss things like gym memberships etc to see what we can afford - I'm very independent and earn a good salary as does he and I told him that absolutely not! I currently live alone with my child and I pay for a nice gym and this will continue even when we are together! If we move to a new location yes I will be joining a nice new gym and I will not be asking him for permission.

The way I see it as long as neither of us in racking up debt and we both pay our half for the mortgage and bills we shouldn't need permission from each other for other things. Of course splashing out on a new TV or a car would be discussed but I don't want to feel like I cant spend my hard earned cash on a gym membership or whatever I choose.

If your partner wanted you to write out all your income and all your outgoings for them would you think it's normal or would you feel it's a bit ott? As I say, Ive told him my income, my mortgage debt, my total equity in my house and my credit card debt

Read the first bit and thought that's quite reasonable. Read the rest and... oh dear.

Turn the tables OP - try the same 'jokes' on him and see what reaction you get.

I would be keeping my own bank account, and opening a separate one for bills/food, you each pay X into it a month. I would not want to loose control of my financial independence. Noway would I be giving him all by salary and him paying me an allowance, wtf, signs of controlling behaviour. I would wait until I move in just to be absolutely sure.

This would give me major cold feet. I'd put off investing in a house together until you're more sure of his character. Even a joke about you giving him your salary and him letting you have an allowance had to be thought of didn't it? So it's not really a joke.

I certainly wouldn't be making long term plans until I knew him a lot better.

Saying you will commit to exactly 50% of all outgoings and household bills might not be the way to go either - especially if one person earns a fair bit more than the other. You can get into a situation where one person has loads of disposable income after bills are paid, and the other, almost none.

I agree with others, that this set-up doesn't feel right at all and there's no way you should be handing over control of your money to him, so he can decide whether to allow you to buy anything or not.

Get a joint account which you and he play into to cover bills/mortgage/household expenses. Split it 50/50.

Personally I don't like this, as if one's income slips then they are penalised. How we do it is to both put the same percentage of take home pay into the central pot, for house, bills, food, holidays and any other shared costs. That leaves us both with a significant personal pot for emergencies, rescue fund, personal buys etc.

Funnily enough, I'd been asking my DH to do this for me because we live in the same house but have nothing jointly in our name (we are married though), it's all in his name. If he was to fall under a bus one day I would have no clue where are finances are and how much we have. He is reluctant to do this for weird reasons to do with his pretty horrid upbringing. He finally wrote down a very basic list like you've already given to your OH but I'm still pretty clueless as to what comes in and goes out.
I don't see it as a huge red flag per se but you should DEFINITELY agree a way to organise your joint finances BEFORE you move in together. Set your boundaries early and stick to them. I wish I had done this.

From personal experience - if you do decide to move in together, DO NOT sell your own house - let it out instead. If things go wrong you'll have somewhere to go back to.

I was in your situation with my ex. We both sold our houses and got a joint mortgage. He turned out to be very abusive, financially also. Now, years later, I'm alone with two young DC and about to be homeless because I was left with fuck all when I left him.

If I hadn't sold my house I would've had a paid off house to go back to, but instead I'm being evicted as the LL wants to sell and can't find anywhere else to rent as I'm on HB. Please think very carefully about this.

I think if I were you I'd tell him what I was willing to put into a mortgage and what I could comfortably afford for my share of the bills, and explain very seriously that my personal spending beyond that was always going to be off limits. His reaction to that should answer your question.

I think that if you give him a total breakdown of all your outgoings he's going to start questioning how many takeaway coffees you buy. Even with the best possible spin on it (i.e. he thinks he's being helpful) I'd personally find that intolerable. You earn a good wage and you are actually entitled to be a bit frivolous with it once the bills are paid.

There's nothing wrong with sharing information pertinent to joint expenses, in fact I believe it's considered financial abuse to withhold that information.

He needs to know your income if contributions to joint expenses depend on them. But if your share of the bills were not dependent on your income, for example if you always paid half, then he doesn't need to know.

I don't see how your outgoings before you live together are relevant to him, none of them are joint expenses. The only thing I can think of that he deserves to know is about any debt.

I think when you decide to live together and pool finances for joint living you do need to be totally honest with each other and be on the same page in your thinking.

At the moment you are both able to row your own boats, but what happens in the future if redundancy, illness or just having children together and the costs of that?

Part of falling in love and wanting to share your life with another person is having trust in that person and being there through the bad times as well as the good.

Are you prepared to do that for this person?

Do you plan on having more children with him op? If so, how much would you be expected to contribute whilst you’re on mat leave? You may have to give up your gym membership if your wages drop. How would you feel about that?

I'm sorry but some of the things he's said have made me really uneasy for you - I'd not be having a joint property and I'd keep my own. He sounds like he could get very controlling indeed. Unfortunately in these sorts of things people don't usually get less controlling - but more as time passes. I'd keep my independence and house otherwise you'll be justifying why you bought expensive tights when you could have gone to a bargain basement in the end!

Wanting to know the details isn't a major red flag for me, and actually nor is his suggestion.... maybe he just loves sorting out money and making it work for him...

HOWEVER.. if you are not comfortable with that suggestion, and you make that clear and he has a problem with it.. THAT would be an enormous red flag.

If you apply for a mortgage, you'll need to tell your provider everything. Me and the dh have joint everything and have no secrets. Will you share finances when you move in together or not? I think you need to be honest but not allow him to control what you save/spend.

If you were both revealing income/outgoings for the purpose of the mortgage/working out what you can afford, then imdon’t see a problem. However, does it have to be a full breakdown? Can you summarise into leisure, car, insurance etc.

However, his,jokes about you paying your salary into his account and he gives you an allowance is a big red flag. This is financially controlling. Especially as you are financially independent and solvent at the moment.

I think,you will resent having to,justify any existing expenditure that you currently spend out. You need more,discussions before,combining your life.

I think it is perfectly normal to have shared family accounts and pool money if that's what you want to do. But you don't want to do it. Bin him. You have a totally different outlook on money and finances, you're not compatible.

That stuff about giving you an allowance from your own earnings is class A weird too. I was reading a story the other day, about a woman and her daughter who were shot dead by ex/Dad. He did the same thing, made his wife and adult children hand over their earnings for 'safekeeping when it was really to stop them leaving

Run. Don't look back. And certainly don't but a house with this man.

he has joked in the past that I could pay all my salary to him and he'd pay bills and invest and give me an allowance.
Not in a million years

I don't like his sense of humour and I don't think you do, either, which is why you're uneasy about doing something that should be fairly sensible and straightforward, with him.

I asked my DH to do this because he was always broke and I wanted to know how to help him; I can’t see that I would of otherwise.
Even as a married couple we have our own money as I’m very independent and I don’t want to justify what I spend on different things to him.

How we do it is to both put the same percentage of take home pay into the central pot, for house, bills, food, holidays and any other shared costs. That leaves us both with a significant personal pot for emergencies, rescue fund, personal buys etc.

That's the best way. Your OH does sound ott with his total breakdown requirements.

YADNBU, sadly. That joke raised my hackles as it clearly did yours.

You can easily evade any attempts to control you financially now. However the fact that that you've spotted this tendency means you'd be wise to give the whole thing a swerve. Because were you ever to become financially vulnerable (made redundant, health problems) you know he'd take control and you'd be at his mercy.

Also a tendency to be controlling isn't necessarily going to be limited to just one area of life.

Back to the drawing board... Get out and meet someone new. It's a shame but better now than later, with your finances entwined. Financial abuse is terrible, and its long term effects can be life changing.

Don't move in with him yet, that 'joke' shows he sees your income as investment capital.
Keep putting it off and see how he reacts.

Fooferella that sounds a bit concerning. He could be gambling all your money or sending itntobsecret accounts in tax havens. Do you have any lersonal money at all? If you have chosen as a couple to share everything why not put everything in joint names?

He doesn't like your spending habits now - he will try and negotiate all the spending

I know one woman that has to provide a recept for everything even a bottle of milk - not even sure how she agreed to that

Can’t believe someone above said it’s OK maybe he just loves sorting out money.

By giving his girlfriend an allowance from her money?!!!!

No fucking way.

My husband and I disagree on how we save. I channel my savings into my pension for tax relief. He’s a premium bonds fan. For the last 2 years, he’s looked like the bad investor, then one bad week (thank you Brexit uncertainty!) and actually he looks more canny than me.

We acknowledge each other’s preferences, and that’s it.

No way would either of us be patronising or controlling and suggest we take over the other person’s money and dole out the pocket money!!