to call an ambulance...

[DijonFijon]

Don't really think I need to call an ambulance but am never sure what to believe when it comes to babies.

I have a 4 week old beautiful boy. Was reading a leaflet given to me by midwife re signs to never ignore.

It says 'call 999 if more than 60 breaths per minute in child under 1 years old'

Timed my boy out of curiosity. He's asleep and has a breathing rate of 79 per minute.

He seems absolutely fine other than a bit colicky. I wouldn't have even thought about it if I hadn't read the leaflet.

I'm waiting for a callback from the health visitor who didn't seem concerned - so I don't actually need to call 999?

I would vote no..
If u are concerned call 111

Thanks @Bigonesmallone3 - though I avoid 111 at all costs. My bet is that they will follow NHS guidelines on this which also state to call an ambulance...

From the number you've posted it seems you've tried to count every breath for the whole minute? ... try setting a timer for 30 seconds and count every time baby's chest rises then double that number... is it still as high?

Does he seem to be breathing easily or struggling to breathe? Is there a grunting sound when he breathes? Is his stomach sucking in under his ribs when he breathes?

If not then I would say 111 or be seen by a health visitor or GP and monitor the situation in the mean time. DD sometimes breathes very quickly at some points in her sleep and always has, so it's not necessarily something to worry about. But I would probably be seen by a health visitor for my own peace of mind.

If at any point he appears to be struggling to breathe then call 999.

If baby is otherwise well (feeding, weeing, pooing, no temperature), check again in a few minutes.

Calling 999 because you don't want to call 111 is a bit extreme for an otherwise well baby

Are you counting each breath in and each breath out to get that number? If so, I think you need to halve it.

Just to clarify, a breath is both breathing in and out. So you only need to count the number of times either breathed in or out in a minute.

I would guess you have miscounted because to breathe both in and out 79 times in a minute is extreme enough be something you would probably have noticed!

Why do you avoid 111? That's what it's there for. This is not a 999 worthy call but it is worthy of 111 only if you're concerned.

Actually it's only worthy of a call to GP see what they say. 111 is really for out of hours.

Has he got a temperature? Is he under too many blankets or room too warm? I called 111 for rapid breathing my child had been ill and turned out our thermometer was broken so had a very high temperature that we hadn't picked up and she was just too hot. Also hadn't eaten for a few days so blood sugar had gone a bit funny as well. Calpol helped.

Id err on the side of caution with a baby that young though and take to the doctor at least

I'm not calling 111 because they follow NHS guidelines to a T so will likely send out an ambulance. I'm waiting for HV to call back to arrange for a time to pop round this morning. If HV wasn't coming over I would call 111, but I do avoid it as haven't found them to be helpful in the past. That's just my experience and I'm sure others have positive things to say.

Breaths are counted correctly, one breath in + one breath out = one total breath.

I think he's fine though. Just felt nervous about the emphasis on 999 but I guess NHS err on the side of caution!

@AmIRightOrAMeringue nope, he's fine. No temp, in a baby grow and vest in a nicely warm but not hot room. I think it's just one of those things. He's a bit colicky so maybe that's why!

I just timed my daughter who’s sleeping on me and she had 14 breaths in 30 seconds, so would be 28 in a minute. If she was breathing more than twice as fast as she is now i would definitely be worried- I’d double check you’ve timed it right and then ring 111. Sometimes when they’re little they’ll breathe really fast for a minute and then slow down, but it shouldn’t be that fast for an extended period of time.

HV is coming at 11 🙂

That’s good, hope all is well when she comes :)

I would just keep monitoring in the mean time OP, things can change quite quickly when they're so young and 79 is quite high.

I had similar when my baby was about 2 weeks old. I called 111 who said I’d be contacted by an out of hours gp within 4 hours but my gut told me something wasn’t right. I called 999 and the paramedics came out in his car thing. He tried getting us an actual ambulance but there were non so he blue lighted is striaght to the children’s hospital. He told me that under 3 months they would always prefer a call out that turns out to be nothing rather than a much sadder situation.

111 would not call an ambulance for that if baby is otherwise well. Most likely at this time of day it would be recommend that you contact your GP

Honestly if I was concerned about a new borns breathing I would not be asking on the Internet or waiting an hour for a HV. I would be getting medical advice now.

HV visitor is definitely the way to go. I do sympathise though because babies can't tell you how they feel when they are ill and they can get poorly very quickly - consequently it can cause worry. I once took my new baby (now 16) to the doctors because she had been asleep for 4 hours straight during the day and was not waking up (very unusual for her). Whilst GP was examining her she opened her eyes and woke up. GP did not say anything to me but her eyebrows were so raised they were practically in her hairline

80 is very high.

I’m a children’s nurse and I would be very worried about a baby that was breathing 80 times in a minute when asleep. Even if the baby was awake I would still find that rate working.

Ask yourself:

Is he a good colour, nice and pink?

Are his hands and feet warm to the touch?

Can you see drawing in underneath his neck when he breathes in?

Can you see his ribs or the shape of the bottom of his rib cage when he’s breathing in?

Are his nostrils flaring? Is he head bobbing as he’s breathing?

Has he been struggling with his feeding?

It’s good you think he is otherwise well but you are right to get him checked out because a respiratory rate of 80 whilst sleeping isn’t normal.

I think this has to do with fever. We got a leaflet from the hospital after my little boy had a febrile seizure and one of the symptoms to look out for when they have a temperature is high respiratory rate, so they recommend counting their breaths. You should cool them down / give calpol if the rate is too high. Does he have a temperature?

As other posters said, you need to check the rib cage and see if there is sucking in there. Two of my children have asthma and it is scary how quickly things can go downhill. It’s very irresponsible of you not to call 111

Everything else is normal.

I'm not JUST on mn, but it's always helpful to seek opinions of other mums whilst also seeking help from my HV simultaneously. She's told me to wait for her to come round, and to just keep an eye on him. It may seem irresponsible to some for me to not call 111 but my HV didn't think it necessary so I'm taking her lead. She must see this all the time...

111 is crap, you might as well look up your illness on a computer and interpret results yourself, there is no judgement or advice. I am told some of the staff are qualified medical doctors or nurses but but you would never know it, just ticking boxes, don't pick up on anything.
Not a patch on the old system (nhs direct?)