to call an ambulance...

[DijonFijon]

Don't really think I need to call an ambulance but am never sure what to believe when it comes to babies.

I have a 4 week old beautiful boy. Was reading a leaflet given to me by midwife re signs to never ignore.

It says 'call 999 if more than 60 breaths per minute in child under 1 years old'

Timed my boy out of curiosity. He's asleep and has a breathing rate of 79 per minute.

He seems absolutely fine other than a bit colicky. I wouldn't have even thought about it if I hadn't read the leaflet.

I'm waiting for a callback from the health visitor who didn't seem concerned - so I don't actually need to call 999?

[Ceecee18]

I wouldn't phone 111 myself OP. By the time you've gone through the zillion questions they ask and waited for a call back/ooh appointment it's often quicker to get a health visitor or go to a walk in centre/urgent clinic.

Also, the first thing they would do is ask you to wake the baby and see if they can stay awake. Obviously if they can't then they send an ambulance.

They asked me to do this once when I called about DDs breathing. She was just 1 and it was 11 at night. She was fine once I woke her up and her breathing went back to normal when she was sitting up (I think it was just a blocked nose causing but I'm a little paranoid about breathing) but she fell back to sleep immediately. The woman wanted to call an ambulance as she said DD couldn't stay awake. I kept trying to explain that she could but it was 11 at night, she had a cold and was exhausted. Took ages to et through to her that an ambulance was unnecessary.

I'm not knocking the 111 service, it can be great. But sometimes it makes more sense to try other avenues first.

[Letsmoveondude]

You’re doing the right thing OP, though in future, If you speak to 111 and don’t agree with what they say, ask to speak to a clinician, they can overrule the pathways system... it’s not always a common sense answer that you get.,

[Sexnotgender]

80 is high particularly for a sleeping baby.

Hope your HV can reassure you or advise what you need to do.

[WithAllIntenseAndPurposes]

That's not right missing I work as a nurse for 111 and apply my clinical judgement to all cases I certainly don't just tick boxes

[Eatmycheese]

That is a high resp rate for a sleeping baby. At such a young age I wouldn't hesitate to call 111

[Bugsymalonemumof2]

Those knocking 111, frequently I have to call them (usually on a sunday.. cheers DS) and 9 times out of 10 i receive care like yesterday: rang at 3.15pm, out of hours appointment given for 6pm, antibiotics given there and then. 3 hours from first call to receiving anti bios is amazing!

Hope the HV reassures you x

[Eatmycheese]

@Bugsymalonemumof2 I've also had first class service and care courtesy of 111 can't knock it

[DijonFijon]

I have no issue with 111, I just haven't had a good experience with them and it seemed to be more sensible to call my HV who knows me and my baby as she's been twice already.

I'm sure 111 on the whole are very useful I just didn't think it was the best option on this occasion.

HV is 5 minutes away so shall update when she's left, thanks all.

[KitKatCHA]

That is very high. My DD had breathing difficulties and when her respiratory rate was 60 breaths per minute she was showing oxygen levels of 90% and needed oxygen through a mask. Please take this more seriously.

[Letsmoveondude]

Missing, that’s absolute rubbish. A triage is completed using the pathways system (or it was last year) they rule out signs of the most serious conditions, they aren’t there to diagnose, but will ensure you reach the most appropriate service direction, all the way from being given home are advice, all the way to being sent an ambulance if they think it’s required.

If you don’t agree with what you’ve been told, you can speak to a clinician, who has worked as a paramedic, RN maybe Dr but I’ve never seen one. Who will use their clinical judgement.

Pathways isn’t always 100%- but updates are regular and work is being put in all the time to make it better, but i myself have called numerous times and have ALWAYS received the help that I needed, and very quickly.

[Allaboutmeandyou]

I hope all is well op with your baby.

[Frustratedmum78]

How about taking baby to the doctors?

[SirVixofVixHall]

Always best to check things out, hope your baby is fine.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I would be very surprised if a HV wasn’t bothered by that respiratory rate and I certainly wouldn’t be paying much attention if she said it was “fine and not to worry.”

I wouldn’t want that hanging over
My head if I was a HV should something then happen to the baby....

I used to work with a HV team and once went to see a baby, just a routine appointment and I was very concerned about their breathing and rang the GP straight away who saw them straight away. He then referred them straight on to Birmingham children’s hospital where she needed surgery to repair a deviated airway.

Regardless of what the HV says, if she isn’t concerned you should still seek alternative medical advice and attention anyway.

[Shirleyphallus]

Do come back and let us know once the HV has been

[gottastopeatingchocolate]

Glad HV is with you and hope all is well.

[GiveMeAllTheGin8]

Hope all ok, I think you've done the right thing. Hopefully hv is with you now

[AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight]

I had this with my second child at 3 weeks. Completely fine except for fast breathing (faster than yours, when awake). I took him to hospital (not in UK) and he ended up in for 3 days on IV ABs. They never did establish what, if anything, was wrong with him - a chest X-ray was inconclusive - and he was by far the most well baby in there, but better safe than sorry. (He's 11 now and very healthy, but does tend now and again to mild chest issues, has had croup twice when none of my others have, and easily gets a cough with colds. So if we nipped pneumonia in the bud I'm glad).

[Sparrowlegs248]

I'd phone the gp for something like this. Mine are happy to have a quick phone conversation.

[Pythonesque]

If that fast rate is sustained, I think I'd want a GP to have a look (and they might want a paediatrician to have a look too, depending on what else was or wasn't going on). You're certainly reasonable to wait for the HV, but assuming they corroborate what you've observed then in such a little one they need checking over. If otherwise "well", no temperature etc, there are all sorts of weird and wonderful heart and lung rarities that might be relevant and not have shown up at the first newborn checks. It could be relevant when you presumably haven't yet had the "6 week" check (or whenever that one happens in your surgery).

Best wishes, and do update us when you have a chance.

[PrivateDoor]

I would have taken her to the GP to be honest, not waited on the HV. Was she recently fed? Reflux can cause tachypnoea (reflux is often mistaken for colic). If ever you see her working hard to breathe or any discolouration around her mouth or any part of her body, she needs to be taken to A&E immediately, by ambulance if necessary. I took DD to A&E when she was a few months old as she woke from a nap and clearly had increased work of breathing. I knew it would be quicker to go myself as we live 5 mins away. She was immediately put on a nebuliser and was admitted for IV antibiotics for a severe chest infection. Babies go downhill ridiculously fast!

[WrongSideOfHistory]

We had breathing rate like this in our toddler. Also with a high temp, cold hands though.

111 directed us to a gp call, who advised us to go to a&e. Turns out it was a chest infection that needed steroids, nebuliser etc

Hope you get some answers op

[bobstersmum]

I hope your baby is OK!

[allhdghd]

Everything else is normal.

Why did you count her breathing? If everything is normal and there are no signs of something being wrong, what made you do this?

I have literally NEVER counted any of my DC's breathing. Some of them are adults now.

[SpannerH]

@allhdghd OP explained why in her previous comments. RTFP

I also agree re: 111, yes they can be invaluable but they can also (in most cases) air on the side of caution. I have been to A&E a couple of times feeling embarrassed and like I have wasted their invaluable and precious time because 111 has sent me there instead of over availabilities. This is the initial call handler not the out of hours Dr's & Nurses they sometimes get to call you back.

OP please let us know how you baby gets on and what the HV says.