To be absolutely heartbroken for the girl who's thong was used against her in a rape case

[easielouisie]

Incase you haven't seen it:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46207304

Its been a long day and I'm very tired but I am so completely heartbroken for this girl and feel so hopeless for us ever getting anywhere, it's like one step forwards ten steps back.

I've just got in and am sobbing for her, how can a female solicitor turn on a young potential rape victim and dangle a thong for the duty to ponder if she was asking for it. I'm horrified this is remotely accepted no wonder girls don't want to come forward its humiliation at its finest.

A similar thing happened years ago and a young girl had to read out the slogan "little devil" from the thong she wore when she was raped. She killed herself following the trial.

AIBU to feel like we'll never get anywhere and people will always be disgusting? I wouldn't be responsible for my actions if I met that woman.

Just hurts my heart how cruel life is sometimes

I am furious about this! I presume this thong was an under garment in that it was hidden by her clothing. In which case why didn't the prosecution barrister object and ask the question: I wonder how many women in this court room are wearing a similar under garment and if Ms. O'Connell would suggest they are all open to sex with a stranger.

Condoms you cannot be for real, using language you personally don't approve of is just as bad as the travesty this girl has endured? Really. I take it you're an adult, if you can't handle a spectrum of language used by grown women to describe this emotive topic then kindly leave the thread instead of trying to police it.

This is why I never reported my rape. I was wearing new, sexy underwear, skyscraper heels and a very short dress. And I was drinking. I didn't stand a chance.

Raffles this is why the system us totally shit.
I'm sorry for your expierence and I'm am angry to know you are far from the only person that will fail to report because of the garments you wore on the day of your attack.
The whole thing is fucked up and wrong.

raffles

It's not just that the thong was brought up, it's the whole logic behind bringing it up that upsets me.

"Does the evidence out-rule the possibility that she was attracted to the defendant and was open to meeting someone and being with someone?"

I have been attracted to people, and yet not wanted to sleep with them. I have (in younger days) been 'open to meeting someone' dressed up with sexy underwear and been 'on the pull', and yet decided I wasn't interested in having sex with any of the guys I met that night.

Being open to the possibility of sex doesn't mean you give up the right to say no. And that's before you even get into the fact that women do in fact wear thongs for reasons that have nothing to do with wanting sex.

It's disgusting. I have 2 DD's and I really fear for them. Should I be covering them head to toe in bin bags?

More details in the newspaper on this case today here in Ireland

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/she-fears-she-wasnt-believed-new-details-on-cork-rape-trial-expose-ordeal-endured-by-complainants-37560842.html

That poor girl. We need this panel of experts in place of a jury brought in as soon as possible

This is a big topic in Ireland, in the press, on radio. But to be honest I've not heard it in general conversation.

The Irish Times has a piece a few weeks ago that brought it to the fore. See here www.irishtimes.com/news/education/students-and-sexual-assault-we-had-sex-well-he-had-sex-1.3643631

It's from a student perspective, but worth a read.

We have just been through my daughter's rape case in a crown court. A male relative. She was raped from the age of 9. The case was initially dropped due to lack of evidence. Then he phoned me and confessed. I asked him to ring me again on the pretence of apologising to my daughter (I had no intention of letting him speak to my daughter) I recorded the conversation. He was rearrested and charged. By trial the charges were increased from 4 to 6. My daughter (now 15) was cross examined for 1.5 hours. I got 2.5 hours. It was horrific. He was found not guilty on all 6 charges. Since then, to protect himself, he has lied to other family members making out I have "severe mental health issues" and "I'm very aggressive". A malicious call was made to social services, which was immediately closed when they spoke to me and has been reported to the police. Seriously, which century are we living in?!?

The disbelief is more abuse.

#TheMagician panel of experts 100% agree.

Feel my god, I'm so sorry. I feel enraged reading about the lack of justice so I can't even imagine....what words are there?

Feel, that is so awful. You and daughter have been so brave. You are amazing.

I really really really cannot understand the jurors in many of these cases. I cannot fathom their thinking, especially when women are jurors. Can ANYONE explain that to me?

The defence barrister actually advertises himself as some who defends child abuse cases. He then spent 2.5 hours questioning my morals!!
The problem with the jury system is as it was explained to me by the dumbfounded police after the trial, it's like needing 95% in an exam and you only got 90%. It requires so much police investigation and evidence for the CPS to even get it to trial. The jury system just doesn't work for these cases.

It the dark ages. It really is.

We have made an appointment with our MP to discuss our case.

The details are shocking, it was a re-trial, the poor girl has had to suffer two trials.

I realise the jury found him not guilty, but I just can't get my head around the fact that a 17 year old virgin on her way home from a night out, randomly hooking up with an older guy she bumps into on the way, who in all likelihood was drunk , as he was known to have an alcohol problem. Well known to the police for other non-sexual offences.

Then a description of her thong is used as evidence she was asking for it.

Feel devastated for her and her family.

feelyourpain - so sorry for what you and your daughter are enduring. I hope you find justice.

Feel I am outraged
And so easy for me to say ‘keep fighting ‘ as you must be completely
Wiped

I am so so angry

"
I note that O’Connell raised the issue of the thong in closing arguments, and can find nothing that says it was raised earlier. In most court systems there is a strict rule that completely new "evidence" can not be presented during closing arguments, and I wonder if the Irish system is different"

No difference in that respect.

It's something that has been commented amongst lawyers (I'm a criminal defence lawyer in Ireland) but seems to have gone under the radar in the rest of the reporting.

It was never mentioned in her cross it put to the woman to deny so it shouldn't have been touched on in her closing

I didn't know underwear is a indicator for raping a woman! This is going back to the dark ages, woman are not responsible for their rape, full stop!